pros/cons of a differnent engine, need some expert opinions (hehe) Options

[jonferns]

ok, figured I would come here to ask this question...I would like to compile a list of pros/cons of putting a '76 2.0 engine in a (mostly original) '74 1.8...

besides more power, what am I gaining? I am torn between the increase in power, vs keeping the originality of the car (not that it will ever a concours competitor)

If I ever had to sell it, would it be worth more with the original 1.8, or the 2.0?

-JON (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[orthobiz]

Here's my take (and I know NOTHING about what it will really take to make the full switch). I looked high and low for a 2.0 but found a beautiful 1.8 instead. I have no regrets. The thing rides like a go kart anyway so as long as it's moving forward I feel like I'm flying.

Anyway, I had a chance to put a 2.0 euro piston motor while it was at Brad Mayeur's. He said I could still use the L-jet FI, guess it had enough "juice" to feed the motor. Also said I could use the same exhaust. And he told me it would be not easily noticeable to cursory inspection. He also had the FI D-jet and was able to make the "complete" switch, put my motor in mothballs for subsequent re-installation upon resale.

I would imagine you would not want to use the 2.0 exhaust because it had the most restrictive flow of all. And the other pieces of the puzzle (brain, FI, etc.) specific to the 76 might not be the best for a power gain.

And, it seems that the cars holding their value best are the ones that are most original. I know I'm looking for an original radio and interior light with the silver rim (mine has the typical accursed fogging and warping), etc., trying to bring it back to factory.

But, the amazing thing about these cars is how easily they can be personalized. And personally, I'd rather buy a 1.8 with a 1.8 in it, unless it were a daily driver in which case I wouldn't care BUT I wouldn't want to pay as much for it.

So, maybe someone can tell you how much of your 1.8 will port over to the 2.0. Might make your mind rest easy...

Paul

[Pat Garvey]

ok, figured I would come here to ask this question...I would like to compile a list of pros/cons of putting a '76 2.0 engine in a (mostly original) '74 1.8...

besides more power, what am I gaining? I am torn between the increase in power, vs keeping the originality of the car (not that it will ever a concours competitor)

If I ever had to sell it, would it be worth more with the original 1.8, or the 2.0?

-JON (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Jon,

This is MY opinion & mine only - and it is an "opinion".

I can see the want for a 2.0, but the '76 motot would not be my pick - even if it's cheap. You won't gain much in the power department.

If you want a 2.0 (and I don't condone swapping, from a purist POV), I'd try to find a '73-74 motor. More power, less restrictions.

Now, if I were thinking about buying your 914, with a 2.0 in it rather than the 1.8, I'd only consider it if I were looking for a driver. In that case, I'd consider it a positive that it had a 2 liter, but I wouldn't touch it for restoration, unless the price was really right.

Depends on what you want from the car. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say that thier 914 "will never be a concours car", and see them come to a concours event & compete.

Never say never, but do what makes you feel good.
Pat

[jonferns]

see, in the end, its my dads choice...but it never hurt to persuade him not to do it....-JON (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Pat Garvey]

So, what're you going to do?

[jonferns]

so, in the end, a 914 1.8, with the original 1.8 would be worth more, then the same car with a later 2.0 in it?

my dad insists that the 2.0's are the most valuable of the /4's, but I dont think its so in the case of putting a later 2.0 in an earlier car...

the car is very nice, not modified (except the steering wheel) and I would love to keep it as such...

-JON (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) thanks all

[Johny Blackstain]

I agree "as is" it might be worth more in the long run. I would never put a stock 76 2.0 in anything, 73 & 74 rule that dept. Slap some different pistons, cam & intake on it & it's all together a different engine.

As stated it is your Dads' car & he will do w/ it what he wants. Save the 1.8 someplace just in case.

[jonferns]

I would love to hear some other opinions.... I may be able to convice him that we have a roller that will, at some point, need an engine (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif) -JON

[davep]

A properly built 74 2.0 is a very nice engine, but you do want to use all 1974 exhaust parts. The 76 engine would be a good core on which to build. Try to get all the FI parts as well.

The 1.8 would be good for originality however. It really depends on what the future holds for that car. It sort of comes down to performance or originality. If the car is really nice and original, then it may make sense to keep it that way. Otherwise, you could do stealth upgrades that keep the appearance original but add significant performance, or more aggressive upgrades for high performance.

[IronHillRestorations]

My personal opinion is that it will be a long time before a 1.8 will bring what premium desirable 2.0 four cylinder cars are bringing. Unless it's an all original (paint, interior, engine) unmolested preservation class candidate, I wouldn't worry about making tasteful upgrades.

As far as putting a six, I don't think a correctly done conversion will detract from the value of any 1.8 or 1.7, again unless it's some pristine original car. I wouldn't bother with a 2.0 six though unless you just fell into a great deal. If you are going through the trouble of a six conversion, the bare minimum IMHO would be a 2.2, which are some of my favorite small displacement sixes. All that said, if you ever drive a 914 with a 3.0 or 3.2, you'll be "ruined"!

[Johny Blackstain]

As far as putting a six, I don't think a correctly done conversion will detract from the value of any 1.8 or 1.7, again unless it's some pristine original car.

All that said, if you ever drive a 914 with a 3.0 or 3.2, you'll be "ruined"!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) 100%

[sixerdon]

OK Guys, I think there is some misinformation being slung around this topic. Since when is a '76 2.0 not as good as a '73 or '74 2.0?? According to my sources, all of the USA 914 2.0 engines have the same compression ratio. That would be 7.6:1. The '73 & '74's were rated at 95 hp/DIN. The reason for a reduction to 88 hp in the '75/'76 engines was the addition of the air injection and a re-routing and design of the exhaust system. The addition of EGR and CAT didn't help matters in CA either. Take out the air injection system and plug the holes, remove the EGR and get a performance exhaust system and you will be right back to '95 HP. That is of course if the engine is healthy.
I'm assuming that since Jon lives in NJ he doesn't have the CA emissions on the subject 2.0.
BTW Jon, just what does this engine have? Has the AI system been removed? Describe the exhaust.

Your question of whether it will devalue your car if you replace an original 1.8 with a '76 2.0? My friend just sold his restored '71 with a '76 engine, trasmission and interior on ebay this past Sunday for $19.5K. The car was extra quick being in a light weight '71 chassis. The best blending of early and late 914 stock components.
I doubt he could command that price in a stock original '71 unless maybe it had less than 1K miles on it. Go figure.
Don

[jonferns]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) any other good reasons? -JON

[orthobiz]

Bottom line: if it were me, I would only buy a car with a different engine as a driver. But I've got a little bit of the originality bug in me. However, make it LOOK like the regular FI and exhaust so no one can tell (unless they're checking engine numbers), then I would be happy to have a bigger engine.

Paul

[Pat Garvey]

Don has a point.

But only if someone is willing to pay a ridiculous price & not get it returned on resale. His buddy did well, but the transaction is an anomoly. Yeah, it's a nice combination. So is a Suby (except no heat), so is a Chevvy (except no heat).

That 914 will never command that price again, because buyers are getting more & more intelligent about 914's.

What makes a collectible achieve highest value is preservation (or correct restoration) and matching numbers. Small deferences to NLA parts are usually semi-acceptable.

I once had a triple black 1970 Chevy Malibu with a heavy breathing 350 in it. It was a great, if poorly handling, car. I can't imagine putting a starngled '74 350 in it. It wouldn't come close to the performance. Yeah, I could desmog it, but the numbers would never match.

MOO (my opinionated opinion).

Now, with that said......Do whatever you like with your 914. If you're going to go with major changes, fine - just don't expect them to be considered original

[jonferns]

What makes a collectible achieve highest value is preservation (or correct restoration) and matching numbers. Small deferences to NLA parts are usually semi-acceptable.

makes sense...now, to convince my dad (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) -JON

[So.Cal.914]

If you were asking me I would say "Take the 2.0 crank, rods, and P/C's (or 96's) and use those to rebuild the 1.8. Get the FI cam from 'Jake', use your heads and tin. You will have the stock #, a stock looking engine and more power. IMHO (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Bleyseng]

OK Guys, I think there is some misinformation being slung around this topic. Since when is a '76 2.0 not as good as a '73 or '74 2.0?? According to my sources, all of the USA 914 2.0 engines have the same compression ratio. That would be 7.6:1. The '73 & '74's were rated at 95 hp/DIN. The reason for a reduction to 88 hp in the '75/'76 engines was the addition of the air injection and a re-routing and design of the exhaust system. The addition of EGR and CAT didn't help matters in CA either. Take out the air injection system and plug the holes, remove the EGR and get a performance exhaust system and you will be right back to '95 HP. That is of course if the engine is healthy.
I'm assuming that since Jon lives in NJ he doesn't have the CA emissions on the subject 2.0.
BTW Jon, just what does this engine have? Has the AI system been removed? Describe the exhaust.

Your question of whether it will devalue your car if you replace an original 1.8 with a '76 2.0? My friend just sold his restored '71 with a '76 engine, trasmission and interior on ebay this past Sunday for $19.5K. The car was extra quick being in a light weight '71 chassis. The best blending of early and late 914 stock components.
I doubt he could command that price in a stock original '71 unless maybe it had less than 1K miles on it. Go figure.
Don

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) There is no difference really between a 73 2.0l and a 76 2.0L engine...even the FI is similar although the 73 2.0L has one year parts that are hard to source nowdays.

Intall the 2.0L with the Ljet and you have a original looking engine. You will have to tune the Ljet to the 2.0L, big deal. Use the early style SSI HE's and a nice muffler and you have the 95hp.

A 2.0 engined car will always be worth more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

[jonferns]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[sixerdon]

OK Guys, I think there is some misinformation being slung around this topic. Since when is a '76 2.0 not as good as a '73 or '74 2.0?? According to my sources, all of the USA 914 2.0 engines have the same compression ratio. That would be 7.6:1. The '73 & '74's were rated at 95 hp/DIN. The reason for a reduction to 88 hp in the '75/'76 engines was the addition of the air injection and a re-routing and design of the exhaust system. The addition of EGR and CAT didn't help matters in CA either. Take out the air injection system and plug the holes, remove the EGR and get a performance exhaust system and you will be right back to '95 HP. That is of course if the engine is healthy.
I'm assuming that since Jon lives in NJ he doesn't have the CA emissions on the subject 2.0.
BTW Jon, just what does this engine have? Has the AI system been removed? Describe the exhaust.

Your question of whether it will devalue your car if you replace an original 1.8 with a '76 2.0? My friend just sold his restored '71 with a '76 engine, trasmission and interior on ebay this past Sunday for $19.5K. The car was extra quick being in a light weight '71 chassis. The best blending of early and late 914 stock components.
I doubt he could command that price in a stock original '71 unless maybe it had less than 1K miles on it. Go figure.
Don

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) There is no difference really between a 73 2.0l and a 76 2.0L engine...even the FI is similar although the 73 2.0L has one year parts that are hard to source nowdays.

Intall the 2.0L with the Ljet and you have a original looking engine. You will have to tune the Ljet to the 2.0L, big deal. Use the early style SSI HE's and a nice muffler and you have the 95hp.

A 2.0 engined car will always be worth more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

Now that's interesting!! I like that. A 912E engine. A sleeper.
Don