Valve spring question Options

[ruddyboys]

I have the valve covers off, and noticed the PO has two different types of valve springs??? On one side there are 3 springs with a second sort of ribbon spring in the middle, the other is either a regular valve spring or a heavy duty valve spring. The otherside has two of each. Will this cause a problem?

[Jake Raby]

Got pics?? This sounds interesting!

[ruddyboys]

Un fortunitly, my boys are on vacation with the camera.

[jk76.914]

While we wait for the pictures, I'll take a guess. I would say that if you're using your engine on the street, minding stock redlines, that you're probably OK with mixed springs.

If you're revving high and frequently, you need stronger springs to overcome the valve train inertia and ensure that the valve closes on time, or very close to on time.

You can't tell spring rates by looking. And those flat ribbon springs are actually dampers that damp out oscillations in the main spring- they may add little or nothing to the spring constant of the main coil. They ride against the ID of the main coils and through friction they prevent or stop these oscillations. It's possible that the springs with the dampers are actually weaker springs than the ones without. The only way to know spring rate is to measure them, and you have to take them off the head to do that.

Often when this damper type of spring is used on an aluminum head, a thin hardened steel shim is under the spring. This protects the head in the event the damper spring works its way down to the base of the main spring, because the sharp flat edge of the damper would start milling itself into the head.

I can't imagine why anyone would mix spring types on an engine. If he was just using up parts on hand when he built the heads up, I'd worry more that maybe he didn't use a hardened shim, which could lead to aluminum particles in the oil or worse.

There may be some hints in the rest of the engine configuration- does the fuel system, exhaust, ignition, etc look like the engine was built for high performance? Is it a 2.0L, 1.8, 1.7 or some non-stock displacement? Is there any rhyme or reason to which valves got the single spring, inlet or exhaust?

good luck!

[ruddyboys]

Not sure what his intentions for the car were, it is an very early '70 1.7 with 96mm pistons and 71mm stroke, duel Dell 40's 2.0L exhaust, 005 dizzy not sure what cam.

[Joe Ricard]

So really you have a 2056cc engine. not a 1.7L

You have two choices
1. run it you blow it up.
2. take it apart to see what you got then sink big money into it to make it last. Not only money but time.

If it were me I'd blow it up. then build it back better. Who knows it might be a good one and never cause a problem.

[davep]

Is this in the '74? Then they may have used a 70 case to rebuild the 2.0 that was in the car. What heads does it have?

[ruddyboys]

Not really sure what he did, he left the car behind his mothers house for many years (why does this sound familer again) but the mother had the papers and signed it over to me. She hasn't spoken to the son in about 10 years so she doesn't have any info on the car. I am assuming they are the original heads because of the pushrod tubes are the 1st generation (smaller size at the head). I do remember a site that had head info, but was not able to find out much. the number on the heads are 022 101 322, if anyone has info on them I would love to know.

[Joe Ricard]

Doesn't matter what # is on them if they have been ported, or revalved and flycut.

Run the living piss out of it. If it breaks then it wasn't very good to begin with.

[jwalters]

Not really sure what he did, he left the car behind his mothers house for many years (why does this sound familer again) but the mother had the papers and signed it over to me. She hasn't spoken to the son in about 10 years so she doesn't have any info on the car. I am assuming they are the original heads because of the pushrod tubes are the 1st generation (smaller size at the head). I do remember a site that had head info, but was not able to find out much. the number on the heads are 022 101 322, if anyone has info on them I would love to know.

here it is: http://www.tunacan.net/t4/

You can at least get an idea of what those heads began life as. Good chance they have not been changed. Headwork is very pricey and most shy away from it, going instead for just bolt on's and bolt in's --

hint: even the numbers can be wrong (which one who kbnows -i.e. info on tunacan or original info from vw) When I helped Nando with his motor, the numbers said 1.8 bus heads. But when sent off to machine and new valves they turned out to be 1.7 bus heads - pretty different animal in valve size and combustion chamber shape - they were somewhat of an oddity...go figure

J