car dead, now what? Options

[SirAndy]

last night i went to start up my car, i turned the key (gauge lights come on), i try to start her and everything went dead.

gauge lights went out, no starter, nothing. tried the blinkers, horn etc. nada.

so i think the battery might be dead, take a voltmeter to the posts, ~13V. hmmmm ...

now what?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Andy

[Tobra]

Short in ignition switch? Maybe something grounding out on the distributor or coil, didn't you just put that together not that long ago?

[swl]

what happens to the voltage when you try to crank it?

[McMark]

No starter? Did you try the screwdriver trick? Then test for voltage to the solenoid trigger wire, does it get 12V when you turn the key? Fuses all solid?

[Spoke]

Did you measure voltage at the battery post or the terminal? Measured with no load or parking lights on? The slightest corrosion or oxidation between the battery post and terminal can cause 3-6V drop and no power to the entire car. Measure with the parking lights on to find the source of the voltage drop unless the battery dumps when under heavy starting load.

Spoke

[john rogers]

Do you have a kill switch? If so, jumper over the large terminals as the sealed electrical switch part can fail. If no kill switch, try to find one of the manual starter switches with wires and connect one to the positive terminal, the other to the starter connection and see if the engine has enough power to crank it. Good luck.

[SirAndy]

Did you measure voltage at the battery post or the terminal? Measured with no load or parking lights on?

uhmmmm, like i said, nothing electrical works. nothing, nada, zilch ...
all dark & dead.

battery has ~13V on the terminals. can't test under load, because nothing electrical is working ...

all dead, no idiot lights, no fuel pump, no relay click, no nothing ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Andy

[Type 4 Unleashed]

Sounds like a connection issue, pull the cables and clean the battery post's and cable ends.

Start at the source, you have voltage, it's just not going any where.

[WaideS]

Sounds like a connection issue, pull the cables and clean the battery post's and cable ends.

Start at the source, you have voltage, it's just not going any where.

Exactly, you don't have to arch the starter, because if the gauges are out you lost power at the terminals or the ignition switch itself. If you just messed with the switch it probably dropped a ground......

[JBart]

I had something like that happen to an old jeep I owned . Take the battery out of the car, place a 2x4 on the ground and turn the battery on it's top and slightly drop it on the 2x4 . This will break loose any lead which may have dropped to the bottom of the battery and shorted a cell or two out . Again this happed to me and it worked. An old autoshop teacher told me this trick.




Good Luck,
jbart

[swl]

You really need to do some measurements with the key in the start position. Like jbart suggested the battery could be pooched - shows 12+v but drops like a stone when you put a load on it. All the rest of the suggestions are good but a pooched battery is the simplist answer to explain going from good to no good that suddenly.

Failing that I would add the ignition switch as a candidate. Again - throw a meter on something that is switched 12v

[Spoke]

uhmmmm, like i said, nothing electrical works. nothing, nada, zilch ...
all dark & dead.

battery has ~13V on the terminals. can't test under load, because nothing electrical is working ...

all dead, no idiot lights, no fuel pump, no relay click, no nothing ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Andy

What voltages have you measured around the vehicle? A 12V fuel pump or idiot light will do nothing with less than 3-4 volts across it.

Like Harry Truman said, "the buck stops here".

Likewise, the electons stop somewhere between your battery and loads. If the battery is measuring 13V and nothing works, chances are your battery is ok and there is some major open circuit. Do you have a fusable link in the positive voltage path from the battery?

Start with the battery and radiate outward. If battery is 13V and voltage at parking lights is 0V, 13V is being dropped somewhere.

With key on, lights on, ..., check battery posts, then battery terminals, then follow wires from the battery. Like to the starter. To the ignition system. Somewhere you will measure 13V, then 0V.

Check battery posts to their terminals. This is where I found 7V of drop when my car wouldn't start.

Measure all voltages from chassis since this is the ground return for the entire electical system.

Check battery ground wires to the battery by measuring voltage from chassis to battery ground.

BTW, I love an electrical challenge like this. The problem will be a simple one: a battery, a wire, a fuse, or a ground/power connection. The electrical systems in these cars are so simple (but not trouble-free) that everything can be worked on unlike modern vehicles with multiple computers, processors, sensors, servos, and miles of wiring.

If I were closer, I'd help you fix this so I can take a ride in your 3.6L and compare it to my 3.7L (1.7L and 2.0L (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

Good luck.
Spoke

[tod914]

have a spare volt reg u can swap out andy?

[JPB]

If your battery holds a charge while you hook up a demanding external load to it without a huge drop in amps then the battery is good. I have seen batteries completely fail without warning which is usually caused by cells shorting. If your battery is well connected with good grounds and holds a load, then its a wire problem. If you are not getting anything when you turn the key switch to aux, then the problem is from there back.

From reading your past posts though, I think your going to "Hyperpace" or "Wormhole Acceleration" is hell on your batteries. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Katmanken]

This is so catastrophic it has to be simple. It's either a bad battery or a wiring connection issue. Might be as simple as a loose nut.

Check the ground first. Have a continuity checker on the voltmeter (VOM)? Looks like a plus symbol with a big black arrowhead pointing into the left arm of the plus. Select that and you should be able to get an audible beep when the two VOM probes touch. Might have an audible button to touch too. Great for seeing if a wire is connected and can pass electricity. Touch the negative terminal of the battery with one probe and a spot on the chassis with the other. Try a bolt head or dig the probe into the paint to find bare metal If your ground is good from the battery to the chassis, you get a beep. Ground good ? Go to step 2

Step 2, it's a positive problem. Start at the battery and start chaining out. First stop, jack the car, Put the VOM on DC volts, and get under and check if you have 12 volts at the big red wire connecting to the starter. Yes? need to go further out, No? Is the nut tight? Is there a break in the big wire?


Hmm.... This isn't one of those cars with the fuching seat belt interlocks is it? That will act just like your problem if it is acting up. Slide the passenger seat forward and look for a buncha wires, a connector and a relay. Have one? wiggle the relay while turning the key. Or, pull the relay and short (jumper) the yellow wires together for a long term fix.

I'd next try the fuse box for power. Most of the fuse clips on one side of the fuses should be positive. Touch one lead to the fuse clips and one to ground with the ignition switch on. No juice? the problem is between your contact point and the battery and is a broken/burned wire issue

Try the above.

Ken

[Brando]

Andy, what kind of battery? Gel-cell or lead-and-acid?

Check your fuses?

Next thing I would go for after the fuses is the ignition switch. Work your way back from there.

[SirAndy]

so yesterday afternoon, i go and borrow my friend's truck to get me around over the weekend.

i drive back home and walk up to my car and tell her "girl, i don't like you no more and you can (IMG:style_emoticons/default/KMA.gif) ".
i ignored her for the next 24 hours and then went back for another troubleshooting session today.
i touch her in all the right places with my multimeter and everything checks out just fine.
i proceed to turn the ignition key and vrooooom, she starts right up and idles happily.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)


i guess reverse psychology really works! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

either that, or i have a faulty ignition switch that should be replaced rather sooner than later ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Andy

[Brando]

Might as well replace the switch while you have a loaner...

[r_towle]

loose ground.
Not sure where the wiring is going in your 3.6 (if that is what we are talking about)

In a stock car (which you probably want to eliminate) the power comes up from the battery, to the ign switch, then from there to the starter.
Its a long haul no matter how you do it.

I would go for a simple push button starter switch, it solves the bad ignition switch (plastic piece) that goes bad alot.

If you have never replaced that part, buy two, keep one on the shelf.
What happens is the rear of the ignition switch breaks, and you cant get to the start portion of the switch.
It will turn, it feels right (cause the feel is in the lock tumbler portion of the switch assembly) but the switch itself wont make contact to the start position once the piece is broken.

You could have a bad switch.
Simple test, use push pins (sewing pins) and a volt meter.
Power lead from battery to switch, red.
power lead switch to starter, yellow (could have a stripe)
Power lead switch to rear (power for FI etc) red

I push a pin through these three wires, under the dash, right where the harness takes a turn into the tunnel, or right behind the shifter (easier) the harness is on top of the tunnel there, and not in a wire loom.

Push the pin right through the wire, making contact with the copper inside.
Test all three wires with the volt meter to see if they are getting power with the ignition switch in the correct position.

Its a whole lot faster than removing the ignition switch, and it can be done without getting on your back to see if you can bend that way to get under the dash.
If you have a console, look under the third seat, there might be an area you can get to it.

The key is to be able to turn the key, while looking at the meter.

If all else fails.
I always carry a simple two things with me, and it always gets me home.

I have a 10 foot wire, with large alligator clips on both ends, in the middle is a 50 amp push button, momentary switch.
The other is a 2 foot cable with smaller alligator clips on the end to connect to my coil.

I can get home that way.

You, with all the FI stuff, and all the 3.6 stuff, would need to look at all that wiring, and how you routed it to make sure there are not loose connections.
KISS (Keep it simple stupid) and try to get two main circuits to get home.
One to start, and one to power up the FI.
The rest you can deal with after you are home.

So, one line to a momentary push button switch hidden in the engine bay, and a power switch hidden under the dash.
With these two, you can always get home.

Rich