Front turn signal brackets(clamps), What was original finish Options

[Pat Garvey]

Working on the car today & pulled one of the turn signal buckets off because I have to replaced the wiring boot (that will be LOTS of fun, getting all those wires & connectors through a fresh, gooey boot).

Question is - what is the original finish on the bucket clamps/brackets. I have a gray set & a black set, and no recollection of the original. Could have even been plated for all I know.

Pat
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Johny Blackstain]

I'm not that far yet but I was wondering as well, since I'm going to have to soak mine, along w/ the buckets themselves to get all the undercoating off them... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Been working on stitching a new leather cover on my 76 steering wheel, for the six- a la RSR.

[smg914]

The front turn signal bucket brackets are Gold Cad-Plated.

Everything that came from the factory on my sahara beige car still has all the original cad-plateing. Right down to almost every nut and bolt and washer. I think spending most of its life in Southern California and the rest of its life in an air conditioned garage in Florida has prevented most of the parts from tarnishing.

So I should be able to answer most questions on what is the correct finish on various parts.

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

The front turn signal bucket brackets are Gold Cad-Plated.

Everything that came from the factory on my sahara beige car still has all the original cad-plateing. Right down to almost every nut and bolt and washer. I think spending most of its life in Southern California and the rest of its life in an air conditioned garage in Florida has prevented most of the parts from tarnishing.

So I should be able to answer most questions on what is the correct finish on various parts.

I saw that car of yours at the Parade a few years ago and think that it is way too perfect to be an original car. It must be a total redo. I think that the Judges were right in rejecting your car in favor of a 200,000 mile 928. Maybe next time you will think better of spending $100,000 on a restoration and then trying to pass it off as an original car.

[smg914]

You are a funny guy George.

I'm reading my 2003 Parade Preservation Group scoring sheet right now.........

Exterior: very nice - odd green spots on wheels
Interior: very nice - awesome
Storage: over prepped storage area for preservation class but very nice/beautiful
Chassis: over prepped - questionable evidence of use - awesome prepared car - would do well in prepared or restoration classes

I was told that my car would do much better in preservation group if I would autocross it and do driver's ed's.

Hey George, I'll drive my sahara beige 914 up to Atlanta and you can take your willow green '71 914-6 out of the museum and we can take our cars up to Road Atlanta for a Peachstate Region Driver's Education. What do ya say?

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

Great idea. I think that driving the BEAUTIFUL north georgia dirt and stone fireroads through the mountains would be most beneficial to the preservation class. Please remember that the Hilton Head concours judges did not believe that the willow green 5604 mile six was original because it was just too clean so instead gave the most original award to an AMC pacer. That just tells one that they are hard up for good judges.
I really think that you and I should be the Parade 914 concours judges from now on, seriously

You are a funny guy George.

I'm reading my 2003 Parade Preservation Group scoring sheet right now.........

Exterior: very nice - odd green spots on wheels
Interior: very nice - awesome
Storage: over prepped storage area for preservation class but very nice/beautiful
Chassis: over prepped - questionable evidence of use - awesome prepared car - would do well in prepared or restoration classes

I was told that my car would do much better in preservation group if I would autocross it and do driver's ed's.

Hey George, I'll drive my sahara beige 914 up to Atlanta and you can take your willow green '71 914-6 out of the museum and we can take our cars up to Road Atlanta for a Peachstate Region Driver's Education. What do ya say?

[smg914]

[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='Aug 11 2007, 11:00 AM' post='934028']
I really think that you and I should be the Parade 914 concours judges from now on, seriously

JOHN TAKEHARA are you lurking???????????

[Pat Garvey]

[quote name='smg914' date='Aug 11 2007, 01:07 PM' post='934029']
[quote name='dr914@autoatlanta.com' date='Aug 11 2007, 11:00 AM' post='934028']
I really think that you and I should be the Parade 914 concours judges from now on, seriously

JOHN TAKEHARA are you lurking???????????
[/quote]
I, personally, would be more than happy to see both of judge. On the other hand, I personally, would not wish that task on anyone - I've done two. You get NO rest. You get people wanting to tell you the car's life history, even though you don't want to hear it - and it grows by hour! Everyone thinks that thier car is something more special than the others, trying to gain influence.

They go off & eat a nice provided lunch, and you trudge in the heat. In the end, evryone but one is pissed at you. "These guys don't know 914's". "These guys are biased for xxx" "Shoulda been jdging the kiddie cars", etc.

Tell you what. If EITHER of you guys judge, I'll take my scores as favorable comment! If you call a spade a spade - more power to you. Those of us who've been doing this for a while know where our faults are. We can only hope that really knowledgeable people aren't assigned, though that is a rarity these days. But, since we know our faults, and haven't dealt with them, we know we'll pay the price. However, we aren't idiots. And, we may challenge you on every deduct - stressful for both parties & why I'll never judge again.

But - I, for one, would be happy to have both of you pick my 914 apart.

Yeah, where IS Takehara!
Pat

[Pat Garvey]

The front turn signal bucket brackets are Gold Cad-Plated.

Everything that came from the factory on my sahara beige car still has all the original cad-plateing. Right down to almost every nut and bolt and washer. I think spending most of its life in Southern California and the rest of its life in an air conditioned garage in Florida has prevented most of the parts from tarnishing.

So I should be able to answer most questions on what is the correct finish on various parts.

Cad plated - that's what I suspected, and sorta remebered. Diatribe follows.

So that brings up another interesting question. Obviously, both of my sets long ago parted with the original finish. My 914 was a daily driver, and I mean EVERY day, for almost 3 years. It accumulated the horors of midwest wintersfor 48k miles. So, the cad plating is LONG gone. I COULD have them replated, but would that be the spirit of Preservation (which, by the way, I think is sissy stuff! - ask me why in another post) - not by the current, stupid PCR's. And, for any of the PCR group that might be lurking - grow some testicles! You guys are so politically correct that you've rendered Parade concours a neutered fool. Yeah, that's right - I said it! Put competition back into it.

Who cares if you're car has been restored or not - go head to head with with everyone & give credits for - dare I say, originality! Or, driving to the event? But wait, that sounds like the old PCR's, which didn't work - for what reason?

When I chaired the '93 Parade concours, people were all taliking about making changes, so that no one's feeling were going to be hurt for not winning. Give me a break! If you want a trophy - WORK for it. We aren't a bunch of namby pamby school kids, who need reinforecment - we ARE adults. If you don't put out the effort, you won't stand a chance of winning.
Put yourself in the mindset of the racers. They know what's necessary to win. Some make the effort - others don't. Some win, because they've made the effort & have the talent - most don't. Do the losers get trophies for not winning?

Let's force this thing back to what it was - and it was purity. You win, because you've prepared & have the done your best to beat the competition, or else - you still go home with smile on your face, knowing that you'll bat them next year, with a little more work.

This whole thing about "preservation" or "restoration" is preposterous! Concours d' Elegance should be about preservation & restoration, wrapped together. It works in other clubs this way, and worked just fine in PCA for over 30 years in this format. Can we please get away from giving "rewards" where they aren't due, just so someone can feel warm & fuzzy?

If you don't win - it's just another day. If you wanted to win, and didn't - it's still just another day. But you will have learned from it. Just like a racer - because it IS competion! And, we will come back again - to win.

Now, since I've hijacked my own thread, I'll await the barbs.
Pat

[Johny Blackstain]

This whole thing about "preservation" or "restoration" is preposterous! Concours d' Elegance should be about preservation & restoration, wrapped together. It works in other clubs this way, and worked just fine in PCA for over 30 years in this format. Can we please get away from giving "rewards" where they aren't due, just so someone can feel warm & fuzzy?

If you don't win - it's just another day. If you wanted to win, and didn't - it's still just another day. But you will have learned from it. Just like a racer - because it IS competion! And, we will come back again - to win.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) , don't expect to win & just hope for honorable mention. Is there such a thing?

[smg914]

Well said Pat and thank you for your insight into the life of a PCA concours judge. Being a PCA member for 33 years now I learned enough to know that it takes a unique individual to be willing to put up with everything involved with being a judge. I was originally a NNJR Northern New Jersey Region member and thats where I first met John Paterek. I entered my first PCA concours (pre-Zone 1) in 1976 in my signal orange '73 2 liter and John was one of the judges. I learned a lot from John who has earned the respect of many in the Porsche community over the years. When George first confronted me about becoming a PCA Parade Judge I responded, "Are you kidding me". Although, I was invited and did attend one of the PCA concours judging schools organized by Dennis Frick. The current PCR's related to the Preservation Group were pretty much Dennis's ideas. Dennis is a great guy and I have nothing but respect for him but I guess I fall into the category you (Pat) mentioned about only one guy goes home happy (and it wasn't me). But from what I have heard, a lot of my ideas I documented in a letter to Dennis and John and others back in 2004 is currently being considered.

From what I can recall, Preservation Group came along after the Manhattan Trophy ("The Best of Show") was discontinued. The Manhattan Trophy format was dropped because it was getting to the point where the person with the most money would win every year. They would buy a nice old Porsche, pay a team of people to disassemble it, restore and or replace every part and put it back together and give it a paint job far, far superior to the factory paint job and of course win the Manhattan Trophy.

After all these years I learned that as long as my car meets my expectations, I am a happy man. I don't need some judge to tell me that there is some strange green spots on my wheels or question the finish of the deceleration valve. I am very content maintaining my cars to my standards and thats all that matters to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Pat Garvey]

Well said Pat and thank you for your insight into the life of a PCA concours judge. Being a PCA member for 33 years now I learned enough to know that it takes a unique individual to be willing to put up with everything involved with being a judge. I was originally a NNJR Northern New Jersey Region member and thats where I first met John Paterek. I entered my first PCA concours (pre-Zone 1) in 1976 in my signal orange '73 2 liter and John was one of the judges. I learned a lot from John who has earned the respect of many in the Porsche community over the years. When George first confronted me about becoming a PCA Parade Judge I responded, "Are you kidding me". Although, I was invited and did attend one of the PCA concours schools organized by Dennis Frick. The current PCR's related to the Preservation Group were pretty much Dennis's ideas. Dennis is a great guy and I have nothing but respect for him but I guess I fall into the category you (Pat) mentioned about only one guy goes home happy (and it wasn't me). But from what I have heard, a lot of my ideas I documented in a letter to Dennis and John and others back in 2004 is currently being considered.

From what I can recall, Preservation Group came along after the Manhattan Trophy ("The Best of Show") was discontinued. The Manhattan Trophy format was dropped because it was getting to the point where the person with the most money would win every year. They would buy a nice old Porsche, pay a team of people to disassemble it, restore and or replace every part and put it back together and give it a paint job far, far superior to the factory paint job and of course win the Manhattan Trophy.

After all these years I learned that as long as my car meets my expectations, I am a happy man. I don't need some judge to tell me that there is some strange green spots on my wheels or question the finish of the deceleration valve. I am very content maintaining my cars to my standards and thats all that matters to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Steve,

Don't get me wrong - being selected as a judge is a high honor, just a lot or work. And, many entrants doubt your capabilities if you judge them less than thier expectations.

Agree with you about the Manhattan award. It had become a contest of who could spend the most money. But, it's still a shame that it went away. Seems to me that, instead of dealing with that particular problem, they just shut it down & did horrible things to the other classes. And, the rule about "restored" is very nebulous. Quite frankly, a "restored" car (in my opinion), and I'll probably be lambasted for this, is a car restored to original condition. Original mechanicals and color available (including paint to match offered by the factory), though I believe the Kardex should be used to document this. My version of Webster defines "restore" as "to bring back to a former or normal condition". The current PCR's describe "restoration' as "the paint color need not be the original", "The upholstery need not be the original color or fabric", and, worse yet "the engine and/or transaxle may have been upgraded or replaced entirely"!

As an example, say I have a '56 Speedster. I happen to love Adriatic Blue, as well as a 4-cam motor. I don't have a Carrera Speedster, but I want to make it one, in Adriatic Blue. So I spend 70-80k for the motor & a great paint job. Is that a "restored" 356? Hardly, but if it's slick enough, it can win. Not right.

I know Dennis too & he's a stand-up guy, but I have to REALLY take issue with these classifications! They are not fair, nor logical.
Pat

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

This whole thing about "preservation" or "restoration" is preposterous! Concours d' Elegance should be about preservation & restoration, wrapped together. It works in other clubs this way, and worked just fine in PCA for over 30 years in this format. Can we please get away from giving "rewards" where they aren't due, just so someone can feel warm & fuzzy?



I agree with Pat here, and want to add my famous hijacked quote: "There are 914s to drive and 914s to show. Therefore to me two classes are good enough take your chances. Full concours and wash and shine. Those classes are good enough for everyone. If you want to compete with the big boys just own a trailer queen, and then there is always that "PRESERVED" 914 with no miles that, if clean, will always win no matter what (unless you are Gaglione) and if you drive your car everyday, concours sanitare is best for that catagory. (unless you are brave enough to enter full concours.
That way the best 914 will always win for originality and cleanliness, while the lesser cars will win for cleanliness alone.

[Eric_Shea]

Yellow Cad is correct.