Another 914 ALMOST on the road after 10 years..., Frustrated "newbie" really needs some help! Options

[kfieler]

Hey folks, I’m EXTREMELY proud to say that I’ve almost got another “teener” on the road… but first, I think I need some help!

Subject: 1973 914-4, 1.7 with fuel injection.

I purchased the car in non-running condition (PO says it sat for about 10 years). I did a TON of work on the car before attempting to start it for the first time (which I will describe at the end of this post).

Long story short, I finally got the car fired-up the other day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) It was running very rough. It would run for several minutes, have a hard time holding idle, then die. After the engine would quit, it would be difficult or impossible to start again until it cooled-down.

Last night, I decided to attempt a tune-up… to get the car closer to running “right”. Here’s what happened:

I could not locate TDC for #1. I did, however, find a “THIN RED LINE” on the fan (which I believe to be the timing mark?). The red mark looks “factory” and not painted by a PO. I put a white dot of paint from a paint marker on the fan (below the red line) to make it more visible.

I double-checked my vacuum hose connections (all new vacuum lines installed on engine).

I installed new spark plugs, a new cap and new plug wires.

I fired the engine and attempted to start timing it with a timing light. Using the timing light, I was able to get the “THIN RED LINE” and my white paint dot to balance in the fan shroud notch by rotating the distributor. Although the engine ran for a few minutes, it died-out before I could proceed further.

After letting the car sit for a few minutes, I was able to start the engine again. It idled for a minute-or-so. It sounded rough and, during idle, it had a "light" backfire one time. Again, it ran for a few minutes then died.

I attempted to start the car three more times. Each time, it would fire - but only run for about a second – then die (almost as if it were only running on the cold start injector?).

With subsequent attempts to start the car – it would not fire.

I added three gallons of fuel to the car (thinking maybe I was out of gas?) and manually ran the fuel pump relay for a couple minutes (to insure the pump was still running and that – hopefully – I was building fuel pressure).

I double-checked the MPC to see if it was still holding a vacuum. It appears to be working. I made certain wiring harness was plugged-into MPC.

I attempted to start the car again. DEAD.

Re-attached my timing light with inductive pick-up to plug wire #1. Cranked engine and noticed the timing light did strobe. Question: Does this mean I still have spark?

I am a complete “newbie” – this being my first project car. I am not a mechanic, but am trying to learn and do this right (so if I sound like an idiot, I am when it comes to auto mechanics).

Please, experts… Any ideas as to what my next trouble-shooting steps should be? I am getting so frustrated that I am about to send this car to a shop… which will completely take my pride in bringing this vehicle back to life away from me!

F.Y.I. – Here are the pertinent things I’ve accomplished in the past month BEFORE I started the car for the first time:

Fuel System:
*Drained the tank of old fuel. Flushed the fuel tank with new fuel.
*Disassembled, cleaned, re-assembled and tested the fuel pump.
*Installed new fuel filter.
*Installed new fuel lines.
*Sent fuel injectors to Witch Hunter Performance for a “rebuild” (cleaning). They came back tested fine.

Engine Electrical:
*Installed new battery.
*Replaced transmission ground strap with a new one.
*Cleaned negative battery ground to chassis.
*Cleaned both battery cables and associated connections. They all look great.
*Cleaned ground bundle to chassis (driver side, next to relay board).
*Removed, cleaned and re-installed relay board.
*Installed known working relays on relay board (fuel pump runs, blower motor runs).
*Installed new ignition switch (original was cracked).
*Cleaned all fuse connections (front and rear).
*Replaced ALL fuses in vehicle.

Vacuum:
*Replaced all vacuum lines with hoses from FLAPS (this is a temporary solution until I can get the “right” metric German hoses).
*Further tightened hoses with plastic zip strips.
*Replaced gasket underneath the “oil filler box”.

PLEASE HELP!

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

The red mark is timing at 3500 rpm after the dwell is set to 50 the white mark is zero to adjust the valves or watch as the retard pulls the timing at idle down to it.
The failure is probably the head temp sensor. It is fairly easily replaced with a 13mm socket and a short 3/8ths extension with a notch cut out of the square side to pass the wire through.

Hey folks, I’m EXTREMELY proud to say that I’ve almost got another “teener” on the road… but first, I think I need some help!

Subject: 1973 914-4, 1.7 with fuel injection.

I purchased the car in non-running condition (PO says it sat for about 10 years). I did a TON of work on the car before attempting to start it for the first time (which I will describe at the end of this post).

Long story short, I finally got the car fired-up the other day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) It was running very rough. It would run for several minutes, have a hard time holding idle, then die. After the engine would quit, it would be difficult or impossible to start again until it cooled-down.

Last night, I decided to attempt a tune-up… to get the car closer to running “right”. Here’s what happened:

I could not locate TDC for #1. I did, however, find a “THIN RED LINE” on the fan (which I believe to be the timing mark?). The red mark looks “factory” and not painted by a PO. I put a white dot of paint from a paint marker on the fan (below the red line) to make it more visible.

I double-checked my vacuum hose connections (all new vacuum lines installed on engine).

I installed new spark plugs, a new cap and new plug wires.

I fired the engine and attempted to start timing it with a timing light. Using the timing light, I was able to get the “THIN RED LINE” and my white paint dot to balance in the fan shroud notch by rotating the distributor. Although the engine ran for a few minutes, it died-out before I could proceed further.

After letting the car sit for a few minutes, I was able to start the engine again. It idled for a minute-or-so. It sounded rough and, during idle, it had a "light" backfire one time. Again, it ran for a few minutes then died.

I attempted to start the car three more times. Each time, it would fire - but only run for about a second – then die (almost as if it were only running on the cold start injector?).

With subsequent attempts to start the car – it would not fire.

I added three gallons of fuel to the car (thinking maybe I was out of gas?) and manually ran the fuel pump relay for a couple minutes (to insure the pump was still running and that – hopefully – I was building fuel pressure).

I double-checked the MPC to see if it was still holding a vacuum. It appears to be working. I made certain wiring harness was plugged-into MPC.

I attempted to start the car again. DEAD.

Re-attached my timing light with inductive pick-up to plug wire #1. Cranked engine and noticed the timing light did strobe. Question: Does this mean I still have spark?

I am a complete “newbie” – this being my first project car. I am not a mechanic, but am trying to learn and do this right (so if I sound like an idiot, I am when it comes to auto mechanics).

Please, experts… Any ideas as to what my next trouble-shooting steps should be? I am getting so frustrated that I am about to send this car to a shop… which will completely take my pride in bringing this vehicle back to life away from me!

F.Y.I. – Here are the pertinent things I’ve accomplished in the past month BEFORE I started the car for the first time:

Fuel System:
*Drained the tank of old fuel. Flushed the fuel tank with new fuel.
*Disassembled, cleaned, re-assembled and tested the fuel pump.
*Installed new fuel filter.
*Installed new fuel lines.
*Sent fuel injectors to Witch Hunter Performance for a “rebuild” (cleaning). They came back tested fine.

Engine Electrical:
*Installed new battery.
*Replaced transmission ground strap with a new one.
*Cleaned negative battery ground to chassis.
*Cleaned both battery cables and associated connections. They all look great.
*Cleaned ground bundle to chassis (driver side, next to relay board).
*Removed, cleaned and re-installed relay board.
*Installed known working relays on relay board (fuel pump runs, blower motor runs).
*Installed new ignition switch (original was cracked).
*Cleaned all fuse connections (front and rear).
*Replaced ALL fuses in vehicle.

Vacuum:
*Replaced all vacuum lines with hoses from FLAPS (this is a temporary solution until I can get the “right” metric German hoses).
*Further tightened hoses with plastic zip strips.
*Replaced gasket underneath the “oil filler box”.

PLEASE HELP!

[kfieler]

The red mark is timing at 3500 rpm after the dwell is set to 50 the white mark is zero to adjust the valves or watch as the retard pulls the timing at idle down to it.
The failure is probably the head temp sensor. It is fairly easily replaced with a 13mm socket and a short 3/8ths extension with a notch cut out of the square side to pass the wire through.

Okay, Dr. - I will order a head temp sensor and replace!

I now have a dwell meter / tach.

Question:

Am I correct that these should be the next steps?

1. Replace head temp sensor and HOPEFULLY get the car running again (up to operating temp)?

2. Set the dwell to 50 with engine running?

3. Bring the engine to 3500 rpm and time the engine to the red mark on the fan?

4. Lastly, adjust idle speed with tachometer?

One last question:

If the car fires this evening (having sat for 24 hours), is that even more of an indication that the root cause is the head temp sensor?

Sorry for sounding like such an idiot. But I am learning so much and really can't wait to get this car going.

THANKS!

- Keith

[tdgray]

Doc is saying start there. I am sure your timing is probably not correct. No way in your present situation would I think you could sustain 3500 RPM to do a timing.

That said do the CHT replacement... can't hurt and is cheap.

I would also.

Verify your fuel pressure... should be 29 -32 psi.

Verify that you have spark at every cylinder.

Verify that your dizzy is operating correctly. advance plates lubed, trigger points okay.

Start there and report back

[BMXerror]

First things first, many of us learned on these cars(myself included), and they can be a real bitch. The D-jet works well if properly maintained, but if it's been sitting for 10 years, god knows! So don't feel too bad.
One thing that I suspect from your post is that you may be thinking of things in a rather complex manner. Go back to the four basics of making any engine run. Do you have air supply(kind of a given)? Do you have fuel supply (proper pressure, are the injectors working)? Do you have ignition? Are all these timed properly? To answer your question, yes, the timing light flashing does mean you have current flow through that wire and plug? I personally, would check all four cylinders this way. Also, get a manual and make sure all your vacuum hoses and injection connections are in the right place. I can't stress this enough because I fought with my car for six months trying to figure out what was wrong with the @&#$ injection, and it was because I had something hooked up wrong. Just keep it simple and logical, and attack the problem in a linier way. That goes for diagnosing any problem.
Finally, where do you live in the Mojave Desert? If it wouldn't hurt your pride too much, maybe I can come out and give you a hand. If not, check those basic elements and tell us what you find.
Mark D.
P.S. Another thing that would be a good thing to do is adjust the valves, just to keep all the bases covered.

[orange914]

watch as the retard pulls the timing at idle down to it.

dr. please no name calling, keith appologized and said he's learning (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

i know youall thought the same thing

[BMXerror]

watch as the retard pulls the timing at idle down to it.

dr. please no name calling, keith appologized and said he's learning (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

i know youall thought the same thing

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)
Good one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)
Mark D.

[TravisNeff]

You can check your Temp sensor II - once the car warms up and dies, disconnect the sensor and check it with an multimeter to see if the sensor is grounded out (shorted), it will read 0 Ohms (failure).

[kfieler]

First things first, many of us learned on these cars(myself included), and they can be a real bitch. The D-jet works well if properly maintained, but if it's been sitting for 10 years, god knows! So don't feel too bad.
One thing that I suspect from your post is that you may be thinking of things in a rather complex manner. Go back to the four basics of making any engine run. Do you have air supply(kind of a given)? Do you have fuel supply (proper pressure, are the injectors working)? Do you have ignition? Are all these timed properly? To answer your question, yes, the timing light flashing does mean you have current flow through that wire and plug? I personally, would check all four cylinders this way. Also, get a manual and make sure all your vacuum hoses and injection connections are in the right place. I can't stress this enough because I fought with my car for six months trying to figure out what was wrong with the @&#$ injection, and it was because I had something hooked up wrong. Just keep it simple and logical, and attack the problem in a linier way. That goes for diagnosing any problem.
Finally, where do you live in the Mojave Desert? If it wouldn't hurt your pride too much, maybe I can come out and give you a hand. If not, check those basic elements and tell us what you find.
Mark D.
P.S. Another thing that would be a good thing to do is adjust the valves, just to keep all the bases covered.

Hey, Mark:

Thanks for the tips!

Per the Doctor, I'm ordering the head temperature sensor today. I'll take his advise and start there.

I see we are neighbors (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) ... I live in Apple Valley! I appreciate your offer to help in person (and, no, it wouldn't hurt my pride at all). Let me see what I can work-through on my own and if I get to the point wherein I am ready to send this tub to the crushers, I'll take you up on the offer!

THANKS AGAIN!

- Keith

[BMXerror]

SWEET!! There's only one other person on the club that I know of in our happy little desert, and he's sort of silent after some unpleasantness (good guy though). I'll be happy to help if you get fed up. And if you do feel like sending it to the crusher's, just give it to me instead. I wouldn't mind at all. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Mark D.

[kfieler]

The red mark is timing at 3500 rpm after the dwell is set to 50 the white mark is zero to adjust the valves or watch as the retard pulls the timing at idle down to it.
The failure is probably the head temp sensor. It is fairly easily replaced with a 13mm socket and a short 3/8ths extension with a notch cut out of the square side to pass the wire through.

Doctor... you were DEAD-ON about the Head Temp Sensor! You rock! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

That was the first thing I checked when I got home last night. It was unplugged (probably happened while I was testing the MPS).

I plugged-in Sensor II, aligned the red timing mark on the fan and the distributor notch to the rotor. I fired-up the engine with no problems. The engine reaches higher RPM's with no problems and easily maintains 3500 RPM (for timing purposes).

I only had a half-hour to tinker with the car last night, but after work today I'll adjust the dwell and (with the help of a fiance's foot) attempt to set the timing.

Thanks again for your EXPERT advise!

- Keith