Got my SSIs installed, And I'm bummed -- UPDATED w/ pics Options

[Lavanaut]

Update ~ the shop was willing to refit the HEs for free. When I got the car back, same problem. I took the car back again, and was promised that they would find out what was going on for sure this time instead of just attempting to re-fit. What I'm being told now is that the driver's side HE has a leak inside the tin, and that carbon build up in the intake was a further indicator that this is the case. He said they could probably fix it, but that it would (obviously) involve removing the tin, locating, welding, then reattaching the tin. He said it'll never look right after that.

So now I'm trying to figure out what to do. Does this guy's analysis of the situation sound reasonable? Like I said, he's a very good guy, and the shop is a very reputable place. He's done all of these re-fits and examinations for free.

I'm tempted to have him fix it because if I don't, the HE will continue to look nice but will be useless to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) I still have my stock HEs, my other option is to put those back on and try to sell my one good SS one. Or I guess try to find one for sale (yeah right).

What would you do? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[PeeGreen 914]

If it's not too much you may as well have it fixed. If he has been doing other stuff for free and has a good rep I think you can trust him on this.

[SirAndy]

What I'm being told now is that the driver's side HE has a leak inside the tin

very unlikely ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

the tin is not welded to the pipes, just clamped around them. the pipes are stainless steel. how would you get a leak in there?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Andy

[PeeGreen 914]

I would think you could find out rather easily for yourself if you pour a fluid down the exhaust pipes and if some comes out of the tin there is a leak.... no?

[914-8]

I had a similar problem when I had my 2.0.

I know a lot of people probably don't do this, or think it would work, but FAT Performance said they use a little bit of red high temp RTV on both sides of the exhaust gasket/washer. I tried it, and it solved the problem. Went for many, many years and miles with no problem.

[Bartlett 914]

Update ~ the shop was willing to refit the HEs for free. When I got the car back, same problem. I took the car back again, and was promised that they would find out what was going on for sure this time instead of just attempting to re-fit. What I'm being told now is that the driver's side HE has a leak inside the tin, and that carbon build up in he intake was a further indicator that this is the case. He said they could probably fix it, but that it would (obviously) involve removing the tin, locating, welding, then reattaching the tin. He said it'll never look right after that.

So now I'm trying to figure out what to do. Does this guy's analysis of the situation sound reasonable? Like I said, he's a very good guy, and the shop is a very reputable place. He's done all of these re-fits and examinations for free.

I'm tempted to have him fix it because if I don't, the HE will continue to look nice but will be useless to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) I still have my stock HEs, my other option is to put those back on and try to sell my one good SS one. Or I guess try to find one for sale (yeah right).

What would you do? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I doubt the pipe is leaking inside the tin but maybe the tube seam did split. After the HE is removed it can be tested to see if it holds pressure. I am sure there are a number of ways this could be done. The first thought I have is the tabs that the studs go through are too close to the ends of the pipes and hitting the head. Thus preventing the HE's from being fully seated on the copper gasket.

[Lavanaut]

What I'm being told now is that the driver's side HE has a leak inside the tin

very unlikely ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

the tin is not welded to the pipes, just clamped around them. the pipes are stainless steel. how would you get a leak in there?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Andy

See Andy, that's exactly what I'm thinking. It just seems very unlikely. Aside from one little ding in the tin, the HEs are in great shape (see pics). I can't imagine a hole forming. Beyond that, I bought them from a member here who told me they worked perfectly, and I feel he was telling me the truth.

I would think you could find out rather easily for yourself if you pour a fluid down the exhaust pipes and if some comes out of the tin there is a leak.... no?

Hmm. Seems like it would have to be a pretty big hole for that to work if there were no pressure to force the liquid through a hole. Beyond that I don't have them here, my car's still at the shop.

I doubt the pipe is leaking inside the tin but maybe the tube seam did split. After the HE is removed it can be tested to see if it holds pressure. I am sure there are a number of ways this could be done.

Good idea Mark. I think I'll pursue that first.

Maybe the member that sold me the HEs will chime in with his take on the likelihood that there's a hole... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[PeeGreen 914]

Not really... Take a piece oftin and block off one end of the pipes. then fil it up with water and plug the other end.

[GaroldShaffer]

It could very well be the pipe inside the tin has a crack. The last time I was at Brad Mayeurs shop he showed me a SSI exchanger that had what sounds like the same issue you are having.

When the outer skin was removed you could see that both pipes had cracks in them about 2 -3 inches long. One of them was split open enough that you could stick a pencil in it.

For me, before I would start cutting open a SSI exchanger I would try the red high temp RTV that 914-8 mentioned and see if that does it. I will talk with Brad and see if he can give me more details on what he found. I have a friend that is a helicopter mechanic and he gave me some of those CO detectors that is used in small aircraft. This might not be a bad thing for everyone to keep in their cars?

[Root_Werks]

SSIs are a PAIN IN THE ASS to fit. Every set I've worked with takes a careful eye to make sure they're actually seating on the gaskets and not getting hung up on the heads.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[rhodyguy]

what did they do to pinpoint the leak in the piping? they did this with the he attached? i was not aware of any seams in the piping. something new every day.

[Lavanaut]

I doubt the pipe is leaking inside the tin but maybe the tube seam did split. After the HE is removed it can be tested to see if it holds pressure.

Turns out it really is leaking inside the shield. They blocked off all but one tube and put applied pressurized air at 15 lbs. and could hear it "leaking like crazy" inside the shield. Guess that answers that. He said that if it's a fracture it's quite easy to weld up and fix, but that once it's all put back together it will be obvious when looking at it that it's been repaired.

This sucks. Time to put the stock exchangers back on I guess and try to sell these with a full disclaimer on the damage. Wish the same had been done for me when I bought them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[Brando]

I agree with the following... MUST be done! A run of the mill exhaust shop will not do this and hopefully they installed the gaskets at the HE/Muffler flanges.

Final torque-down is after they're warm to ensure no leaks.

Sounds like an exhaust leak where the h/e's meet the head. Drop the exchangers and get a BIG ass flat file. Take a sharpie and color the end of the flanges. Then take the file and run it across BOTH flanges at the same time until the sharpie is gone. Then file off the same amount of the top of the mounting tabs. Make sure the sealing area on the head is clean and not buggered up. Get new copper gaskest and re-install.

You may also have some residual oil in the tin that is burning off.

The pop-pop-pop at idle sounds like an exhaust leak though.

[MartyYeoman]

Time to put the stock exchangers back on I guess and try to sell these with a full disclaimer on the damage.

I'm glad you've got a go ahead plan.
Personally, I'd (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
I don't think there's much of a market for broken SSIs.

[So.Cal.914]

Warning - possible bad info. Gearheads please flame this down if it is BS.

During safety checks I see the mechanics stop off the exhaust with a bung. If the exhaust is tight the car will almost stall. If there is a leak it because obvious where it is.

I don't like the sounds of that. I would never assume that I had no leaks if the car choked after blocking off a major pipe. Would you expect a car to run through a couple of bad gaskets and pin holes?

But if it was a controlled back pressure that could be dialed down, I suppose it would expose the leaks.

I'm just blabbing though... Sorta fits when I think about it: Kinda like if I was holding my hand over my mouth and you're hearing what was coming out my ears and backside. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

You could always inject some LA air, then just sit back and see where it leaks out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

To me it definatly sounds like a leak at the heads. My .02

[Lavanaut]

I must not have been clear. With the HE off of the car, they blocked off one end and put 15 lbs. of pressurized air to the other end and could hear it "leaking like crazy" underneath the heat shield. It has a leak, that much is certain at this point.

After further consideration though, I'm going to have them fix it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[Allan]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) just fix the leak.

It wont take much to cut the tin open, weld the pipe and re-weld the tin back.

Besides, how often do you look under the car at the H/E's?

[MartyYeoman]

After further consideration though, I'm going to have them fix it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Bartlett 914]

I doubt the pipe is leaking inside the tin but maybe the tube seam did split. After the HE is removed it can be tested to see if it holds pressure.

Turns out it really is leaking inside the shield. They blocked off all but one tube and put applied pressurized air at 15 lbs. and could hear it "leaking like crazy" inside the shield. Guess that answers that. He said that if it's a fracture it's quite easy to weld up and fix, but that once it's all put back together it will be obvious when looking at it that it's been repaired.

This sucks. Time to put the stock exchangers back on I guess and try to sell these with a full disclaimer on the damage. Wish the same had been done for me when I bought them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Bummer about the SSI's. It is hard to believe that would fail but apparently they have. Do they look like they had been damaged in any way like in a rear end crash? My guess is this is probably a failure of the pipe from the pipe manufacture. Inside the tins the pipes are not bent much. Hard to blame SSI.

[Lavanaut]

Yep, bummer. They look fine, just one very small dent in one of the heat shields, but otherwise they look great. I'll see if I can get the guy who's working on them to snap a picture or two of the damage once he pulls it apart.