Brake pedal not returning, Is this the bushing? Options

[Thack]

My brake pedal does not return to the "off" position. I have to pull it back with my hand or shoe. It actually drags the brake pads because I noticed my car not accelerating with the pedal slightly stuck like I pushed it down 3 inches. Is this the bushing? Is this the classic rebuild the cluster with bronze bushings time?

[davep]

Yes it is. Brake fluid is generally the culprit, causing the bushings to swell and the steel to rust. Bad combo.

[ConeDodger]

Budget for a pedal cluster rebuild, done by several in the World if you aren't interested in taking it on yourself. See the Lapuwali Classic Thread Forum for a how-to done by Eric Shea if you are. Otherwise Bruce Stone and Eric Shea do this for a fee. Bruce is BDStone I believe and Eric Shea is well... Eric Shea.

Also, as someone has already said, this is caused many times by brake fluid from your failing master cylinder. Budget for that as well... Pull up the carpet and if it is wet there is the culprit.

[Thack]

I rebuilt the mc so it must have happened before I rebuilt it. Is the cluster rebuild difficult? That spring looks like a bitch.

[ConeDodger]

I rebuilt the mc so it must have happened before I rebuilt it. Is the cluster rebuild difficult? That spring looks like a bitch.

If you think that spring is a bitch you should meet Yopu's evil twin sister... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Like I said, check for the rebuild classic post in the Lapuwali classic posts.

[Cap'n Krusty]

There's no tension on the springs when the cluster is out of the car. The roll pin's a probl;em, as it the clutch pedal fit on the shaft. Lots of heat works. DO NOT EVER try to beat it apart. EVER.

As for the rebuilt master cylinder, please don't drive behind me. If it needed to be rebuilt, it's beyond what installing a kit will fix. The Cap'n

[geniusanthony]

You may wanna check that your rubber brake lines have not swollen and acting as a check valve...happened to me once. Doesn't sound to be your problem as you can pull the pedal back and the brakes will release fully, correct?

Good luck either way.

[Thack]

Can you drill out this roll pin if it's stuck and just put a hardened bolt in it's place? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)
I may get a new mc if I find that this one is leaking.

[Cap'n Krusty]

Can you drill out this roll pin if it's stuck and just put a hardened bolt in it's place? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)
I may get a new mc if I find that this one is leaking.

I doubt anyone here has a way to drill out the roll pin. Maybe you could use an EDM, but not a drill. It's an interference fit, and I doubt even a hardened bolt would last very long compared to a roll pin. The Cap'n

[ConeDodger]

As for the rebuilt master cylinder, please don't drive behind me. If it needed to be rebuilt, it's beyond what installing a kit will fix. The Cap'n

When maintaining a car, you should never try to save money on the brakes. False economy. Many of these cars sit for years without being used. The bore of the master cylinder gets rusted and pits. Rebuilding, especially if that is not what you do for a living will get you in trouble. It can even kill you.

Pull up your carpet and look to see if you don't STILL have leaking brake fluid.

[Thack]

So you guys suck it up and buy a $200 master cylinder everytime yours' is questionable?

[addwestern]

Rob is spot on in this one. We've rebuilt a few pedal clusters that have had this happen to. One of the worst we saw was on a concours quality 914 that was great everywhere else.

Don't go on the cheap for a rebuild on a M/C. You can get a 19mm for less than $200. A couple of bills aren't worth your life or those who drive around you.

[davep]

Pretty much. $200 does not cover a lot of body repair, loss of income or lawsuits.

[Thack]

Good info. thanks to all of you. Now that I remember I didn't rebuild the M/C. I replaced it with a good known working one. I did take it apart to make sure there were no obvious problems. So you can drive in front of me Cap'n. If you want... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
I think I have more problems with rotor condition than M/C failure.
Do you guys buy new rotors or have them turned?

[bperry]

Can you drill out this roll pin if it's stuck and just put a hardened bolt in it's place? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)
I may get a new mc if I find that this one is leaking.

I doubt anyone here has a way to drill out the roll pin. Maybe you could use an EDM, but not a drill. It's an interference fit, and I doubt even a hardened bolt would last very long compared to a roll pin. The Cap'n

Well, years and years ago (mid 80's) i did both. I beat on the pin for a while
and then gave up after I only got it half way out and it broke off.
I then used a drill on it.
I seem to recall that it really didn't drill it out, it kind of slowly mangled and
broke enough to finally get out.

Getting the the roll pin out is the only hard part. The bushing replacement
is easy. Even installing a new roll pin isn't that bad.

I would HIGHLY recommend finding somebody with a press and pressing
the old roll pin out.

--- bill

[davep]

Do you guys buy new rotors or have them turned?

In most cases the rotors are worn too close to minimum to machine and stay in spec. Also, many of them are warped enough that machining true will result in less than minimum. So you have to measure them and check the runout to determine if they can be machined.
Bottom line, easier to get new ones.

[Jeffs9146]

Is the cluster rebuild difficult?

On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the hardest, I would put it at a 3 1/2 but it will take some time to clean it up right! There is almost always some dirt and rust under the cluster that needs to be cleaned and treated before you put things back together. Also while you are doing that you might want to look to see if your accelerator pivot arm shaft is cracking. I hate it when your foot goes to the floor and you got no acceleration.

[Eric_Shea]

Guys - The roll pin is "never" a problem. The clutch pedal and the shaft is "always" the only insurmountable issue. I see this repeating itself in these threads. There is a simple, simple, simple solution (if you have an air hammer and a few bits).

Use the pointed nose bit that comes with most air hammer bit kits. Get the pin started with that. Use the proper 3/16 drift to simply punch it out the rest of the way. I've built over 50 of them and this works 1-2-3, a-b-c every time.

Now, getting the clutch arm off the shaft... that's not fun and yes, I've used more heat than you can imagine, from MAPP to Acetylene. I've soaked them for over a month. Some... will probably never come off.

You have a slightly better than 70:30 chance of getting it off... so, give it a shot. As mentioned here, it's a pretty damn easy rebuild. Once you get it apart, I would consider sending it to a local plater to help stop future rust and brake fluid issues and, get bronze bushings (I don't care what Bruce Anderson says).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

One more thing: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Good known working master cylinders almost always go bad after sitting w/o fluid. I've had many brake customers tell me that their M/C went out when they were bleeding their new install. Happens often.

[Thack]

One more thing: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Good known working master cylinders almost always go bad after sitting w/o fluid. I've had many brake customers tell me that their M/C went out when they were bleeding their new install. Happens often.

I'm not following you. They were bleeding their new what install? Or were they bleeding their newly aquired used m/c?
If a used m/c is so dangerous, why does this site and PP allow users to sell a used m/c? There are no warnings last time I checked on this site in the classifieds...