Autocross Options Options

[johnmhudson111]

Looking at setting up a 914 for autocrossing (PCA and SCCA mainly) with an eye toward DE and club racing. Is there a current set-up that is more competitive than another? As we are starting with a clean sheet of paper at this point our options are only limited by our wallets. Here is what I was thinking, take a clean 914 2.0 as a starting point and add any needed safety equipment (roll bar/cage) learning a bit with that. Buy a junker 911 with a good motor and suspension (thinking an SC) swap it over and go from there. In looking at the PCA club racing rules the 3L SC would put you in the "big boy" class so we had talked about taking it down to a 2.8L if that is even possible. What do you guys think?

[jhadler]

Looking at setting up a 914 for autocrossing (PCA and SCCA mainly) with an eye toward DE and club racing. Is there a current set-up that is more competitive than another?

For any class, there will be a better setup. The trick is, what class do you want to compete in? If you're really interested in the -competition- aspect, you need to prep the car to the limit of the rules for whatever class you choose. If not, and it's just for fun, then build what you want, and enjoy.

As we are starting with a clean sheet of paper at this point our options are only limited by our wallets. Here is what I was thinking, take a clean 914 2.0 as a starting point and add any needed safety equipment (roll bar/cage) learning a bit with that.

Sounds like a good starting point. I would seriously consider suspension upgrades right off the bat. The 914 in bone stock form is pretty soft, and if you plan on taking the car any further than bone stock, suspension will be the first, and best, place to put your money.

Buy a junker 911 with a good motor and suspension (thinking an SC) swap it over and go from there. In looking at the PCA club racing rules the 3L SC would put you in the "big boy" class so we had talked about taking it down to a 2.8L if that is even possible. What do you guys think?

Pretty much any class that allows motor swaps puts you into the land of the trailer-riding-fire-breathing-monsters, or "here there be dragons". So if a 6 conversion is what you ultimately want to do, read the rules for all the applicable classes, and decide what you want to do. And once you've read the rules, read 'em again.

Yes, a 6 can be a blast. And for an all around fun car, you could do pretty much anything and have a pretty high probability of having fun. But if you want to compete, then you need to build the car to the rules of whichever class you choose. In PCA, there's a class for nearly any variant of Porsche-powered Porsche's. I think there's even a class for Orange 1973-1974 914 2.0L's... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) In the SCCA, once you start doing things like engine swaps, you gotta open up that wallet...

-Josh2

[johnmhudson111]

That is kind of the game plan, start with a "stock" car and take it to the limit of the rules, learn to drive and make planned modifications. We plan to get to the trailer monster in time.

I guess the real question, like you said, becomes, do we want to focus on PCA, SCCA, or???

[jhadler]

That is kind of the game plan, start with a "stock" car and take it to the limit of the rules, learn to drive and make planned modifications. We plan to get to the trailer monster in time.

Well, now that depends on what you establish "stock" to be. In SCCA autox, Stock still allows for some modifications. Shocks, tires, exhaust, and alignment are the main ones. In PCA it depends on what region you run in as some have difference rules than others. In some cases, "Stock" allows spring and torsion bar changes. It really comes down to the rules. Pick a class, and build the car to the limits of the rules for THAT class. It doesn't mean you can't play in other clubs, but you are not likely to be built competitively for any other club once you optimize for a certain class.

I guess the real question, like you said, becomes, do we want to focus on PCA, SCCA, or???

Depends on what you're looking for. If you looking for lots of options, and lots of seat time, mostly for play, PCA is hard to go wrong. You will generally get more runs/day at a PCA autox than in the SCCA. You will also have PCA DE events to play in as well. For the top competition, SCCA is where the big dogs play. Yes, I'm sure I'm poking a stick in a hornets nest by saying that, but it's true. The level of competition is higher in the SCCA, and better drivers come from that program. Not to say that there aren't some seriously talented hot-shoes that run in the PCA, there are, no doubt about it. But the overall level of competition, in all classes, is much higher at SCCA events than in PCA events.

It really boils down to this: What do you want to do with the car? If it's National Competition, you need to examine the rules carefully, and choose the class accordingly. If it's having fun at the local level, and making the occasional stab at TTOD, then build the car of your dreams, screw the class rules, and drive, drive, drive.

-Josh2

[johnmhudson111]

If it's having fun at the local level, and making the occasional stab at TTOD, then build the car of your dreams, screw the class rules, and drive, drive, drive.

I think at this point we should just have fun and not worry about it for right now, we have to relearn how to drive, once we get super serious we can fine tune the set up of the car.

Thanks....

[jhadler]

If it's having fun at the local level, and making the occasional stab at TTOD, then build the car of your dreams, screw the class rules, and drive, drive, drive.

I think at this point we should just have fun and not worry about it for right now, we have to relearn how to drive, once we get super serious we can fine tune the set up of the car.

Thanks....

Okay, that being said...

For a relatively stock car (not a built motor or a 6), I've found that the following setup provides a very good handling car for autox, and occasional track days.

21 mm front torsion bars
22 mm front sway bar
200# rear springs
Konis at all four corners

Alignment to taste, but a little toe in at the rear, and near neutral in the front.

I have slightly flared the rear to fit 225's, but a 205/50-15 shoudl fit under stock fenders if you've got the right wheels (factory 4-lug Fuchs are the only original wheels that will accommodate that size tire under the original body work).

YMMV...

-Josh2

[Chris Hamilton]

If you're autocrossing, staying with a well built 4-cylinder is the only way to go. I think the 2007 porsche parade autocross proved this point pretty well.

[DanT]

If you're autocrossing, staying with a well built 4-cylinder is the only way to go. I think the 2007 porsche parade autocross proved this point pretty well.

the multi-time Parade AX champion, Tom Provasi might disagree with that statement. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Chris Hamilton]

If you're autocrossing, staying with a well built 4-cylinder is the only way to go. I think the 2007 porsche parade autocross proved this point pretty well.

the multi-time Parade AX champion, Tom Provasi might disagree with that statement. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

After getting beaten by Niesloni at San Diego this year? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

His car is very very fast, but I think the autocross is just too tight for it to unleash it's 6 cylinders of fury, even with the huge wing and big sticky tires.

[DanT]

If you're autocrossing, staying with a well built 4-cylinder is the only way to go. I think the 2007 porsche parade autocross proved this point pretty well.

the multi-time Parade AX champion, Tom Provasi might disagree with that statement. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

After getting beaten by Niesloni at San Diego this year? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

His car is very very fast, but I think the autocross is just too tight for it to unleash it's 6 cylinders of fury, even with the huge wing and big sticky tires.

that has been disproven at several Parade AXs. Actually Tom's scratch time was faster than Steve's. Tom nicked one cone. And at Parade cones are two seconds instead of one. If it had been a normal one second penalty, Tom would have won. No excuses, Steve won this year, but Tom has multiple wins.
Also Tom did not AX at all this year leading up to the Parade event. And I believe he was still using slicks that were over a year old. Not the best formula for TTOD.
Doubt any of the Westcoasters will be traveling back east for next years event.

[ConeDodger]

I don't think anything was proven about 4 cylinder power or 6 cylinder power at Parade. If you put Tom and Steve in a Hyundai sedan they would be fast. Steve beat me by a full second in my own car the very first time he drove it AND had me in the passenger seat. These guys are just fast. Autocrossing has much more to do with the driver than most people give credit for... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Chris Hamilton]

[quote name='Dan (Almaden Valley)' date='Nov 21 2007, 01:56 PM'
that has been disproven at several Parade AXs. Actually Tom's scratch time was faster than Steve's. Tom nicked one cone. And at Parade cones are two seconds instead of one. If it had been a normal one second penalty, Tom would have won. No excuses, Steve won this year, but Tom has multiple wins.
Also Tom did not AX at all this year leading up to the Parade event. And I believe he was still using slicks that were over a year old. Not the best formula for TTOD.
Doubt any of the Westcoasters will be traveling back east for next years event.
[/quote]

I don't mean to nitpick, but he had brand new tires there. As for not racing for a year, I'm sure that had some to do with it.

Too bad it isn't somewhere more local any time soon. I'd love to see another autocross with the fast California guys.

I wonder if there is any way to get some fast people back out on the courses?

[DanT]

there is a plan already in the discussion stages to have a 914 centric AX (maybe Saturday and Sunday) as part of a GGR scheduled AX next season.

It will be widely advertised and special invitations will go out to the hot 914 pilots in Norcal, Socal and even Washington and Oregon.

Lunch, Tshirts, bench racing dinner on Saturday and other things being discussed.

More to come as we get some ideas of dates available for next seson.

[Chris Hamilton]

Sounds really great!

[drew365]

In looking at the PCA club racing rules the 3L SC would put you in the "big boy" class so we had talked about taking it down to a 2.8L if that is even possible. What do you guys think?

My experience with POC is a 914-6's best chance at even competition is by staying with a 2.4 or 2.2. In POC that puts you in V4 which is not full of the big budget, big wing monsters. My 2.7 with 7 & 8" wheels puts me in V3 with the 3.2's w/ 8 & 10" wheels and big wings. The points are skewed against the 914 because every upgrade you do from stock adds points, so if you start out stock 2.0, 6" & 7" wheels, you've added big points before catching up to the 911's starting out with 3.0, 7" & 9" wheels. You will have fun no matter what car you drive or where you place. If you want to collect trophies than stay in a class that's friendly to your chosen car, for a 914 that's not with the big bore guys.