Building a shop, Whats the good the bad and the ugly? Options

[Wilhelm]

Made a deal with my wife that when the kitchen was done I could put up a shop and get my cars and tools out of the dirtfloored polebarn that I have to share with the (her) horses.

I have a few criteria:

Steel
Concrete floor through out
Adequate size, likely 40' x 50' with enough height for a 2 pole lift.
Seperate heated tool room to stop the endless condensation and relentless tool self destruction brought on by the moisture drifting out the Oregon winter moors.
Everything insulated as from experiance the pole barn is hotter than ambient in the summer and seems colder than ambient in winter.
Hot water, shower, toilet, fridge.
Doors, windows and garages that seal.

As I cruz the net, there is a bewildering array of manufactuerers and resellers all claiming their building is the next better moustrap and the other guys suck. (kinda sounds like the presidential debates lately). What I ask is the collected advise of fellow 914world members who've traveled this task to tell me who has good products, fair prices, who stands behind their product. Ease of erection (buildings, not 914members). Is one type of building better? ie pole, metal beam, truss, or certainly what is complete mickey mouse crap. Disasters you may have encountered, sellers you recommend.

Thanks, Wilhelm

[914Sixer]

I can not recomend any buildings as mine came with the house. My shop is air conditoned and heated for year round playing. It is small (20x20) but comfortable. One thing I would do over is to make arragements to put the air compressor outside. The noise level is LOUD when things are closed up.

[URY914]

Go to this site...

http://www.garagejournal.com/

and click on the "board" section on the right side. Tell everyone I sent you and have fun. There are as many nuts there as there are here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[race914]

Be sure you get at least 3000lb concrete for the floor so you can install a two post lift. There was a shop on the property we bought and when I went to install a lift, found out the floor wouldn't support the lift.

Also make sure you plan for adequate electrical outlets (110 & 220) also have the outlet boxes spread across several circuits so if you have friends over you can run several tools at once, etc.

Something like this book might be of interest for your planning

(IMG:http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5187KMP8MJL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg)

Have Fun!

[J P Stein]

Steel buildings are COLD.....except when it's hot out, then they are ovens.
The cold is worse as that will cause condensation on everything. Insulating such a structure is nearly hopeless......they don't seal up well to boot. The East wind during the winter is a bit of a problem, eh?

I would suggest a shop of standard wood construction with sheet rock walls & ceiling.
The cost is higher, but the sumbitch can be insulated as well as a house.

[J P Stein]

Mine is only 24 X 36....which seemed like a good idea at the time. It filled up quickly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[computers4kids]

I started this process last year and found it to be a "red tape" nightmare with the city...permits...engineering etc. I would suggest checking into your zoning regulations and your city planning department before you spend a dime.

I still want one...and the wife has blessed the idea, but I'm just not willing yet to spend those BIG dollars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) pour at least a 6' slab where your lift(s) may go..

[PRS914-6]

My shop is 28x66, wood construction with 22' being "garage only" I find that the 28' is deep enough. Some things I got right.....

1. Lots of outlets, you can't get to many. Make sure you have ceiling reels too.
2. Oversized heater. I can warm my shop 1 degree a minute in winter for those quick jobs
3. Air lines all over with overheads as well. Compressor outside
4. Swamp cooler for summer.
5. Split my shop into "machine area" and "working area"
6. Wired locations for welding (220 3ph)
7. Installed 6 sky lights, wish I had done more.
8. Phone line!
9. "mono-pour" slab. No foundation sticking out keeping stuff away from walls. SMOOTH FINISH, not broom for easy oil cleaning

What I did wrong......

1. Ceiling only 10 feet.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
2. Didn't consider a lift
3. I installed a toilet but never use it. (I'm in the house enough)
4. Should have made "car ports" outside (roof only)
5. Need to paint inside white for more light reflection (getting old)
6. No hoist
7. Wash tub too small
8. Used trusses that limit attic storage. (biggest mistake)
9. Used overhead doors that block light when up. Use roll up doors

Think it through, sketch lots of diagrams then string line it outside and walk around and see if you like it. It's quite fun.

Here is a portion of my "machine area"

[boxstr]

Why a building?? Go for a bunker. Follow this thread.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12234
Solves allot of problems, if you can do it.
CCL

[tango-52]

Since you are building it from scratch, why not put in a pit instead of lift? My brother lives in Washington, east of Vancouver (Battle Ground) and he built a 3-bay garage. Two are standard height openings and the third he made high enough he could pull his Suburban into with the ski rack and boxes on the roof. That way he could load it up before they went skiing. In that taller bay he also put a pit and laid aluminum diamond plate over it. His place is up on a hill so he didn't have shallow groundwater issues to worry about. Have fun planning it out and good luck.

[jd74914]

Pits are a very bad idea. They are also illegal in many parts of the country. What happens if your car catches on fire with you under there?


We built a 24x36 garage thats post and beam. It was a kit, and my Dad and I though that the assembly was really easy. We actually did all of the framing in about 1 weekend (my whole family are very skilled carpenters so the above may not be true for most people). The hardest part of the framing was lifting the 6-700lb beams up 10ft. Three people was not enough for that task (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

We did all of the escavation, built the foundation forms, poured it, and finished the entire barn so the price was very reasonable. The place we got the kit from has a demo page at countrycarpenters.com.

All in all it took about 3months tho build which included all of the above and clearing an acre lot too.

Its a 24x36 structure which we thought would be plenty large, but its not. Three Porsches and a bunch of other projects fill the garage portion pretty easily. The foundation was made an extra high 11ft so there is room for a lift. We'll get one eventually. Now we are planning a 14ft addition (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Just like Paul said above, we want to put a lean to on the front for some car port space (many of our neighbors think we're crazy because all of our daily driver cars are outside).

If you know where you want to put a lift you can also just pour an extra thick pad at that point to save money (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Here's a few old pictures of ours in the middle of construction:

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/blog-1133567618.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/blog-1133567693.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/blog-1133567811.jpg)

[Wilhelm]

Why a building?? Go for a bunker. Follow this thread.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12234
Solves allot of problems, if you can do it.
CCL

I thought about a pit, but I'm absent minded enough that I worry about me (or the kids) falling into it and breaking some important part of the body. I think a lift will give more flexability for changing tires, dropping engines out of the bottom, getting stuff up to a comfortble work height.

I'm not seeing a lot of support for metal buildings. I do agree they are more difficult to insulate, are generally unattractive, probably don't help resale. Guess I set up a spreadsheet to calculate all the associated costs to figure out what is a better immediate and long term deal. Frankly if I had my druthers I like to have poured concrete/foam (like quadloc) wall with SIPS for the roof. Just seems like a lot of expense for a shop though.

[Dr. Roger]

there is an extensive thread somewhere here on this topic.
where? i have no idea. =)

[jonferns]

heres a pic of ours in june of this year...now, the driveway is all framed, and ready to be poured...the garage itself is almost done. During the summer, it was comfortable inside, not too hot. Use a moisture barrier under the concrete floor!

(IMG:http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q44/sendjonathanmail/IMG_0099.jpg)


-JON (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[scotty b]

Radient heat tubing in the floor. A MUST ! Especially in your area !! Low cost and very effective. Concrete holds cold just as well as it does heat. So if you keep the concrete at 60-70 degrees all the time think how much warmer the building will be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Wilhelm]

Radient heat tubing in the floor. A MUST ! Especially in your area !! Low cost and very effective. Concrete holds cold just as well as it does heat. So if you keep the concrete at 60-70 degrees all the time think how much warmer the building will be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I have radient heat tubing in my house and must say I love it. My concern with putting it in the shop is having to remember where I put the tubing when it comes to drilling holes in the floor to mount things like lifts and lathes. Like many things it would require planning.

[scotty b]

[quote name='Wilhelm' date='Nov 17 2007, 06:42 PM' post='967817']
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scotty b @ Nov 17 2007, 06:14 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Radient heat tubing in the floor. A MUST ! Especially in your area !! Low cost and very effective. Concrete holds cold just as well as it does heat. So if you keep the concrete at 60-70 degrees all the time think how much warmer the building will be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
[/quote]

I have radient heat tubing in my house and must say I love it. My concern with putting it in the shop is having to remember where I put the tubing when it comes to drilling holes in the floor to mount things like lifts and lathes. Like many things it would require planning.
[/quote]

Why not set your bolts for the lift in place when you lay the tubing, then pour the concrete. You could make a simple frame werk to hold them in place while pouring and curing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[PRS914-6]

While radiant heating works great for a house, one thing it does not do is raise the temperature quickly and you wouldn't want to leave it on all the time.

I would install a propane or natural gas "Reznor style" heater. They are cheap. I think mine was about $400.00 through Graingers. Calculate the size required and double it. Why? I'm sure nobody spends all day or every day in the shop. If you go out in the middle of winter and want to work for an hour or two you can turn on the heater, go in and make a cup of coffee and come back out to a warm shop. While not in the shop, you can simply turn it off.

The key is to heat it quickly when you want to work. I hate a cold shop and if you are like me will be reluctant to go out and work when it's cold. This solves that problem. I can raise the temperature of my shop 10 degrees in the time it takes to make my coffee.....

Through many different homes I have tried many different ways including portable units, wall units, kerosene, etc. and I like this the best.. Of course if you can't get NG or LPG you are out of luck!

[J P Stein]

Paul brings up a good point about heating.......cheep heat is gud. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Quick heat is very good.

I use a pellet stove and it's not quick, but it is cheap....bout 8 bucks for a weekend. I don't heat the shop unless I have a full day to waste....er... spend in the shop.....too effin' cold out there for after work shop time. Heating full time gets pricey.

Since you're out in the boonies with lots of trees around, think wood stove. Cheep, quick, warms you 2 or 3 times. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[JPB]

I feel your pain my brother and I have been shopping myself for this type of thing. By next week I should know if my recent real estate deal goes through and then bamm! I like the horse barn thing with lean-tos . I also need a high enough area for a small overhead bridge crane. Man there is a good deal on Ebay right now. What ever the material you use for the building, there is always a way to keep it dry and heated/cooled. I need alot of covered space outside for more cars, steel storage and a decent climate controled shop for misc. metal work. Its easy to keep a small work area heated in a huge storage complex if you build a winter shop inside it. I hate to say it but its will be as nice as you want to afford. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)