To drop or not to drop, Should I remove the engine prior to work? Options

[ericread]

As I am working my way through my car, I am now planning work in the middle/back of the car. My most pressing requirements are to 1) Stop or significantly reduce engine oil leaks; 2)Perform a clutch rebuild job, and ;3)Replace the transmission and motor mounts.

My plans were to work on the oil leaks first. I have ordered new push rod tubes, push rod tube seals (O-rings), and oil cooler seals from Aircooled Technology (along with some Dirko and Loctite 565 - I figure Jake knows what the hell he's talking about, so I'm following the advice he has posted in this BBS and on his website).

I was expecting in April to order the 19 piecce clutch rebuild package from AA and motor/transmission mounts from Pelican Parts.

So... My question: I have been fearful of even the thought of removing the engine to perfrom the work. For the oil leak issue, my thought was to perform the work wjhile the engine is in the car. I am uncertain whether to remove the engine prior to seperating the engine from the transmission for the clutch job.

WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE??? This is a 1974 2.0L with original FI. I have a small garage where I turn wrenches along with a fair assortment of hand tools. I have no "bench" or other professional amenities.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[TROJANMAN]

If you have to drop the engine, it is easy.
1 hour max, but porbably quicker.
You have lots of support living around you if you need a hand.

[BenNC]

In my experience it took about 2-3 hours to drop the engine/tranny the first time and about 30 minutes to do it the second time (maybe a slight exageration, but not much). About the same for re-installation

How bad is the oil leak? If it is not catastrophic (i.e. you've been driving it in this condition for a while) just wait and do it when you get the clutch parts.

With the engine in the car, changing the pushrod tubes will be very difficult. You have to pull the rockers to get the push rods out, and you have to do some crazy angling because there is not enough room between the head and wall to pull all of them. The oil cooler will be harder. Only three nuts, but they're behind everything. Its been done though.

I would (and did) pull mine to fix a similar oil leak. However, repair of the oil leak somehow ended up involving a five-lug conversino and GT flares, so beware (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

On the other hand, you could try to do the work with the engine in the car. If it turns out to be impossible, you can always decide to drop the engine.

[Dave_Darling]

For the clutch job, leave the engine in the car.

For pushrod tubes, leave the engine in the car.

For the oil cooler leak... Ugh! I think I'd drop the engine. In which case, I'd do the pushrod tube seals with the engine out, for easier access. Probably the clutch as well.

Yes, it is possible to replace the cooler seals without removing the engine. But it's an ugly job. Besides, you have more of a chance to clean everything up when the engine is out!

--DD

[biosurfer1]

and since you have the engine out, you might as well upgrade the cam and P/C's... and since you have to open the case for the cam, you might as well do a 2270... and since you're doing a 2270, you might as well upgrade the exhaust....and with all that power, you should upgrade the suspension...

hm, this sounds familiar...almost like a disease or something:)

[toon1]

DROP IT!!! THe maintenence will be much easier this way. This also gives you acess to the engine bay for cleaning and repairs.


BTW-- while you have the engine out, replace the V.C gaskets and adjust the valves. also replace the oil cooler seals.

If you have the V.C.'s off, Check all the valve tops for wear. Since your in there, pull the heads and replace the head gaskets. since you have the seads off, pull the cyl's and replace the rings. since the cyl's are off and are replacing the rings, replace the cyl. base gaskets, since your there, replace the pist's with some Keith black's.

Hell, since you are that far, might as well split the case and put in a new cam and new bearings............ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This is how it all starts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[JPB]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Drop it!!! Just drop it!!!! It won't be that painful just fun, ya way fun and it would not hurt to see what others have done to their engines. I dropped my engine and now it is sold, go figure (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Pat Garvey]

I agree with BenNC. First time takes a few hours - after that, the learning curve is finished & it is very easy.

BUT. You seem to have limited space & nowhere to go with the motor/trans assembly once it's down. Once you have it down, what will you put it on so you can work underneath, where the oil leaks/tubes/seals are? You're going to need to get it up in the air enough to do the work underneath.

No bench, huh? Can you find a spot to squeeze one in? With a bench & mounted engine stand the work is a piece of cake. Without getting the motor in the air, I see a really messy workplace. Transmission comes off easily & you do almost all of the work on the ground, but I think you either need to find a way to get at the bottom of the motor while it's out, or try to seal it up with the motor in (and I wouldn't want to that - takes a contortionist who can swear loudy & frequently without offending anyone.

Good luck & go for it! Guess most of us have at some point!
Pat
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

Before you replace the oil cooler seals and find it doesn't fix the leaks, look closely at the oil pressure switch. I would guess 9 out of 10 oil cooler leaks are fixed in 10 minutes by replacing that sender. The Cap'n

[stateofidleness]

ooooh cap'n! got a pic of that?
ive got the oil seals all ready and i hear it's a bitch... i'd like to rule out all other possibilities first!

[914-8]

The drivetrain on a 914 drops out surprisingly easy. Esp. on a 4 cylinder. It is physically small and light, and you have to only undo a few things before you can just drop it right down. It'd take it down if i were you. Good chance to really inspect everything, replace what needs replacing, clean up all the connections, etc.

[bigkensteele]

I don't remember where I found it, but somebody had a good idea for dropping the engine that I have used twice now. Get two pieces of 3/8" threaded rod about 18" - 24" long and 6 nuts, 2 washers to fit said rods. Get the car as high as you can on jackstands. Use your floor jack to support the engine brace on each side as you remove the bolt holding the engine bar to the body. Replace with the threaded rod, put two nuts on top and the washer and remaining nut on the bottom. After both sides are done, put your floor jack under the rear of the transmission, and remove the transmission mounting bolts.

Next step is to remove the CV bolts and all other connections between the car and the engine. Don't forget the ground strap on the tranny.

Now you can lower the whole assembly very slowly by holding the threaded rod and loosening the bottom nut on each side and lowering your floor jack in the rear. The only clearance issue you will find are the injectors/hoses and the engine shelf. You will also need to make sure that you have your axles wired up and out of the way, especially on the left side where the starter is.

Just did this a week ago, and it is much easier than trying to replace the oil cooler seals with the engine in the car, which I did a couple of years ago. Still leaked like crazy.

Your best bet is to get the motor out, determine where your leaks are coming from and address the issues without having to guess.

Good luck!!!

[Cevan]

I agree with BenNC. First time takes a few hours - after that, the learning curve is finished & it is very easy.

BUT. You seem to have limited space & nowhere to go with the motor/trans assembly once it's down. Once you have it down, what will you put it on so you can work underneath, where the oil leaks/tubes/seals are? You're going to need to get it up in the air enough to do the work underneath.

No bench, huh? Can you find a spot to squeeze one in? With a bench & mounted engine stand the work is a piece of cake. Without getting the motor in the air, I see a really messy workplace. Transmission comes off easily & you do almost all of the work on the ground, but I think you either need to find a way to get at the bottom of the motor while it's out, or try to seal it up with the motor in (and I wouldn't want to that - takes a contortionist who can swear loudy & frequently without offending anyone.

Good luck & go for it! Guess most of us have at some point!
Pat
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Once you have it out on a dolly, put it up on jack stands.

[JeffBowlsby]

Those are all easy enough to perform with the drivetrain in the car, unless you just feel like you MUST drop the drivetrain.

If so, be prepared to find other things that just HAVE to be addressed...and the resultant extra time and cost.

Don't turn a 10 cent project into a $10 effort.

Me?...I'd rather be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[ericread]

In spite of all that I read from your posts, and considering the post from Pat Garvey regarding not having a bench, I had decided not to drop the engine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

HOWEVER, with the post by Cervan (especially the picture of the drive train on the jack stands) I am convinced I should drop the drivetrain. So... I will move forward on that basis. And yes, I am also planning to do the following: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

1. Valve adjustment
2. Replace the valve cover seals
3. Replace the oil temperature sender (as recommended by the Cap'n)
4. Replace the CV bolts with the new drilled and wired ones from Dr. Evil
5. Replace the transmission mounts and engine mounts

Any thoughts on replacing the oil strainer seal? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

While I'm at it, it will give me a great opportunity to clean up the engine compartment and tin.

I cannot express my appreciation at all of you for your advice (with the exception of the advice to move to 5-lug conversion, GT flares and the 2270 engine!) Without your advice and support I would have never even bought this beast, let alone considered doing this work. My hat's off to all of you!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Of course, I may re-evaluate this after pulling the engine... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[JPB]

Those are all easy enough to perform with the drivetrain in the car, unless you just feel like you MUST drop the drivetrain.

If so, be prepared to find other things that just HAVE to be addressed...and the resultant extra time and cost.

Don't turn a 10 cent project into a $10 effort.

Me?...I'd rather be (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) First, purchase another one you can drive then work on this one. Don't say I didn't warn yooooooou (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)