Massive type 4s, dependable or not? Options

[749142]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) im thinking a massive type 78mm stroker crank with 104mm pistons. any suggestions or objections? im looking for a massive streetable type 4. but im inexperienced with these massive type 4s and i need help on deciding wut size to go with. and are they worth it?!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
steven g

[ws91420]

Get a Raby kit

[J P Stein]

Ask 5 people that have one in a 914.....and have had one for 5 years.....3 years?

[hcdmueller]

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I am just finishing my 2056 kit. There was no guess work involved. The few questions I had were answered quickly by Jake and his people. I took my time putting the whole thing together. Now I am just doing detail work to the car before I install it. If you are inexperienced or unsure about Type 4's at all, a Raby kit is the way to go. Now he has the extensive prep service and you just have to bolt everything together. I am thinking about getting a Camper Special for my Baywindow truck just because of my experience from start to finish.

[749142]

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I am just finishing my 2056 kit. There was no guess work involved. The few questions I had were answered quickly by Jake and his people. I took my time putting the whole thing together. Now I am just doing detail work to the car before I install it. If you are inexperienced or unsure about Type 4's at all, a Raby kit is the way to go. Now he has the extensive prep service and you just have to bolt everything together. I am thinking about getting a Camper Special for my Baywindow truck just because of my experience from start to finish.

ive actually built about 4 or 5 type 4s so im not enexperienced witht them im just inexperienced with the massive ones. my dad though can maching anything i need to have done and he can figure out all the guess work. i just want more power than a 2056. looking for something over 240hp. that maybe a lot. but its worth a shot. i read the post about the 2270 putting out 209 hp. it should be possible for a type 4 bigger than a 2.5 to put out over 240 hp.

[ws91420]

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I am just finishing my 2056 kit. There was no guess work involved. The few questions I had were answered quickly by Jake and his people. I took my time putting the whole thing together. Now I am just doing detail work to the car before I install it. If you are inexperienced or unsure about Type 4's at all, a Raby kit is the way to go. Now he has the extensive prep service and you just have to bolt everything together. I am thinking about getting a Camper Special for my Baywindow truck just because of my experience from start to finish.

ive actually built about 4 or 5 type 4s so im not enexperienced witht them im just inexperienced with the massive ones. my dad though can maching anything i need to have done and he can figure out all the guess work. i just want more power than a 2056. looking for something over 240hp. that maybe a lot. but its worth a shot. i read the post about the 2270 putting out 209 hp. it should be possible for a type 4 bigger than a 2.5 to put out over 240 hp.

Go to Jakes website the 2270 isn't the biggest he has. With his kits you get proven R&D that will help w/ the longevity aspect as well. Every year he seems to get a little more out of these engines.

[hcdmueller]

That ought to be a pretty impressive engine. That would be some scary power in a light 914. Good luck with the build. I didn't have the resources to do anything unique or special. Prices over here are just too high.

I understand the more power thing. I have too many expensive hobbies to get that far into one of them. I just wanted a little more power for the Autobahn.

[ConeDodger]

The quickest way to failure is to experiment without a budget. If you go about this yourself, just guessing on the combo and the cam you are almost sure to fail... Jake failed spectacularly over and over until he found what works. He continues to try combinations to get more out of the engine reliably. He TRIED to fail so he knew where limits were.
This is why people are telling you to go with a Raby kit. You know up front what the combo should make for power. His combo's generally make less heat than stock. He doesn't want you calling him and saying the thing went boom three weeks after completion. He is not going to offer a combo that is in danger of damaging his own reputation.
I have no doubt that you can make lots of HP out of some self-cooked combo greater than 2.5 liters... Driveable? probably not.

My 2270 makes 170+ at the flywheel. It runs consistently lower temperatures than my stock 2.0 liter did. It is a blast to drive. Lots of power right where you want it.

Unless you go with a proven combo you are likely to fail. Even if your Dad does your machine work you will still have spent a couple thousand dollars. How many times do you want to do that before you get something you will WANT to drive?

[jd74914]

If you build something that big it is possible to make tons of power. You just have to think about it carefully and read alot. I do think using Jake's knowledge is probably a good way to go. His name is on his kits so they are of the highest quality.

No matter where you get the parts from its not going to be a cheap project. You also won't want to use iron 104mm cylinders. They will warp to hell in your engine and start leaking like mad. Your current exhaust also won't work. To efficiently make any power you want a scavenging exhaust, not just some slapped together thing with a flowmaster.

If you can get over 240hp out of your engine I would be seriously impressed. Its really hard for anyone to do that and make last any amount of time though without a lot of research and testing.

Jake putting out 209hp and most others putting out 209hp are seriously different things. A lot of testing and failure has gone into his 209hp, along with some really nice parts and other engineering. Most of us don't have the resources (I know I don't), or the time, or the drive to do such a thing. It never hurts to try though, you just have to be prepared in case it grenades. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

James

(PS: Could you maybe type with some correct grammar/capitalization? It would make reading easier) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[brer]

Do your research and go for it man.
Just be prepared to have to build it a couple times, maybe more.

[McMark]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with Rob. And failure = a motor that can't be tuned, only makes power in the extreme upper RPM, etc. There's no doubt you can ASSEMBLE a motor with those specs. And there's no doubt it will run and you'll be able to drive it around. But there is, unfortunately, very little chance you'll correctly guess a combo that will make great peak power, have a flat torque curve, make power down low, be tunable, get decent gas mileage, and not overheat.

Huge cast iron cylinders are a major PITA, so unless you're doing 104 with Nickies, you're building a troublemaker. 2270 is a GREAT motor.

[JmuRiz]

That much HP would necessitate lots of $ and working with someone like Jake on one of his larger engines (I think he no longer offers kits for the 2.5+ engines, only turnkey engines).
And this motor would need all the tricks, nickies, crank-fire ignition, DTM cooling setup, EFI, Tangerine exhaust....

[ConeDodger]

I agree with what McMark said because he has a seriously BIG BRAIN and I just have a lot of education...

It occurs to me that I should add a disclaimer to what I said above. I was giving advice to the average guy. You might not be average. It is possible that you could out do Jake's efforts. I am just pointing out the path of least resistance to your stated goal. If you have the patience and the respect in the community so that you can call WebCam on the phone and say "I need you to make me up a cam with this profile". And then, build a motor or ten and test them on the dyno, trying your best to kill them while looking at the power they produce then go for it. I apologize for stifling your creative and intellectual spirit.
My guess is that WebCam will hang up on you until you prove you can consistently produce powerful engines with reliability.

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[brer]

www.shoptalkforums.com





people are willing to discuss engines there should you want to have a go at it yourself. Alot of information from Jake there as well, should you have several years to read it all.

[messix]

i would think that the heads would be a key part off getting a 2.5 or bigger to make 250hp, stock wont do it, even a stardard port job won't do it, a welded up extensive might but thats alot of research to get the flow right.

[Mark Henry]

An engine that size won't last long without nickies, so you are looking at over 6K+ in parts alone.

I've built them, not for the weak of wallet or skills.

[jgara962]

I agree with what McMark said because he has a seriously BIG BRAIN and I just have a lot of education...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I thought it was all hair (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Sorry, I'll let everyone get back to the topic at hand.

[J P Stein]

Unless you go with a proven combo you are likely to fail. Even if your Dad does your machine work you will still have spent a couple thousand dollars. How many times do you want to do that before you get something you will WANT to drive?

With all your education....and me with so little, you must give me an educated definition of "proven".

[McMark]

so much for keeping I'd friendly and fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[ericread]

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