Are We Stifling Creativity? Options

[DBCooper]

Yeah, that's called maturity. Some have it, others don't.

Now when I see idiocy I remind myself how lucky we are that one of the traits that all assholes share is that they're pretty eager to identify themselves. And as soon as you know who they are it's pretty easy to avoid them. Here, I can demonstrate:

Andy your car SUCKS. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

See that? Now you can add me to your "idiot" filter and your life will be significantly improved.

[ericread]

Yeah, that's called maturity. Some have it, others don't.

Now when I see idiocy I remind myself how lucky we are that one of the traits that all assholes share is that they're pretty eager to identify themselves. And as soon as you know who they are it's pretty easy to avoid them. Here, I can demonstrate:

Andy your car SUCKS. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

See that? Now you can add me to your "idiot" filter and your life will be significantly improved.

See. It's small minded comments like this that hurt this BBS and all of us. The correst response should have been:

"Andy, I hate your front bumper!."


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

[SirAndy]

"Andy, I hate your front bumper!."

Geee, you guys are harsh! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I think i need to stay away from this site for a while ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif) Andy

[orange914]

If luke warm or negative feedback stiffles your creativity, you should probably stick to collecting stamps.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) Andy

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

we're all into the same thing here. myself like many here have dealt with conflict here and have been all the better for it. i don't agree with the blatant @$$hole but the "everybody gets a student of the month" thing helps no one.

throw out your ideas and take the praises and/or (constructive) critisizm. creativeness will flurish (<--spelling?)

mike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)

oh yeah i hate your bumper too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) just kidding (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[plymouth37]

I think its pretty obvious that you guys are stifling the hell out of my creativity...

[J P Stein]

No lack of creativity here.
The second attachment may be a bit stifling tho.
No "massives" here......or nobody would admit to it.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Andrew did make a comeback on the 2nd day to take 914 TTOD for the day.

[Jake Raby]

A few months ago when this post was popular I had a chat with a couple of the older members of the forum on this topic. We agreed on some points that not just this forum, but lots of others also can stifle creativity by streamlining modifications.

Its no secret that lots of people find it necessary to indirectly label me a "salesman", and in some cases they are correct. I really wish they wouldn't be so evasive with their criticism and just come out and say what they feel directly. I would certainly respect their criticism a hell of a lot more, and them as individuals...

It is very difficult to be an Enthusiast in the same world that you reside as a Professional. This is true not only with BBS like this one, but also with attending events. Thats because it is impossible to have a weekend escape where I can be just like anyone else, without all the BS to go with it.

For many years I found it entertaining to help people on forums, of course that was before there were so many small splinter groups that had formed. A decade or so ago the Type 4 was very misunderstood and people were really open to hearing about effective ways to do certain procedures, or make solid modifications that would not leave them without a clue when they didn't work out. As information grew and people shared their own findings things changed.. My idea was to standardize things as much as possible and allow people to start from base lines that were known to be effective. If they had success with those, then they would build confidence and be able to add their own creativity.. In lots of ways it was effective.

In 2005 when I opened my retail store, things really changed.. Thats because until that point I didn't sell any parts and only used the parts we made in our complete engines. As soon as these modified parts were available our interface with the public increased and then the situation for me changed on the forums... Being here was no longer fun, it was a stressful part of life that I no longer cared to experience.

Now, I'll keep the rest of this short... (or will try to)

You haven't seen me very active here over the past few weeks and thats for several reasons. The main one being the fact that I could see that my presence was doing no one any favors, not like in the past when people looked up to solid information, R&D and someone that would take flack for saying what they felt and had the experience (and data) to back it up.

Today I only make a few posts a week and just browse the boards once daily to see if my products have been mentioned here and need any support. I no longer spend hours at a time reading posts, or battling with people about six conversions or Subaru transplants. More than likely, unless my name or products are brought up, you might go a month without seeing me here and thats exactly what many people, and this forum need (and want).

I work with with machines and don't have a lot of interactivity with others. This is one thing that has made me very effective at what we have created here, but few people can understand what really makes me tick. I know/knew that but a lot of times I really didn't put that into perspective and my actions pissed people off, but I hope that every one of those people learned something from what I had said, or perhaps it made them scratch their head enough to do a google search on the topic.

Today I have re-aligned the way we are supporting these engines and I simply no longer have the desire to share these things on forums. Thats largely due to all the drama that comes from it and because I simply don't have the time. Between my normal work load at the shop being doubled with the Boxster and 996 development I have also been producing instructional videos and our online Radio show (podcast). My Company has grown and is requiring a lot more of my dedication to keep that growth positive as I have added new Employees and new divisions as well.

So, I have had my own forums since 2006 and they have been a very effective means for those who want to interact with me to do so. There we can provide product support, answer questions and can do so in an area that is paid for solely by us, not dependent upon any "club" support or etc.

We are continuing to advance the TIV engine and work to provide instruction to those who appreciate it and need it. This will continue in the form of DVDs as well as "Aircooled University" which will begin next year and offer 3-4 day workshops on different aspects of the TIV engine, right here at Aircooled Heaven.

I have been missing the camaraderie of forums like this one, but certainly not the dramatic nonsense that sometimes comes with that....

I didn't mean for this post to be an advertisement and really over all these years I haven't meant to be anything more than any of you who are reading what I am writing here, right now... Thats certainly not what occurred and for that I do apologize.

So, you certainly won't need to worry about my posts stifling creativity here any longer. I'll stop in when I have to (because someone brought us up), otherwise you can find me over in my cave, where I belong :-)

When you live, eat, breathe and excrete the work that you do and have the same hobby, it is REALLY damn hard not to promote it. Sorry guys.

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Aug 9 2008, 10:46 PM

[DBCooper]

You're not going anywhere, Jake. The last time you left this forum it was because 914 owners were all "cheapskates". Those were your words, no one else's. How long did that last?

[ericread]

"Andy, I hate your front bumper!."

Geee, you guys are harsh! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I think i need to stay away from this site for a while ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif) Andy

Come on now, you know I'm kidding. In fact if you hadn't of mentioned it, I would have never brought up your bumper... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif)

But Jake is correct. There is a BIG difference in the level of creativity for someone like me (a weekend novice wrench at best) and a professional engineering enterprise. I enjoy helping other novices in not making the same mistakes I made, and in learning the correct way to perform maintenance.

Obviously I'm not adding engineering excellence or moving creativity up a notch in the eyes of those whom have been performing this type of work for years. It only seems creative to me because of my incredible lack of knowledge/experience.

For those whom are actually being creative, that is, pushing the envelope of the 914, my posts may seem contrite, silly and probably a waste of their time. However, these people are making our engines perfrom better than new, making our brakes stop us more efficiently, make our fuel lines more safe, and our tubs more secure. In many cases, it would seem to be foolish for these people to share their closest secrets about how they do what they do. They have spent considerable time and money in being creative, I hold no ill will that they want make a profit from this work.

So is creativity being stifled here? NO! It is just the case that the people that provide new and improved products in support of our cars have matured into businesses. And as a business matures, it stops telling everyone around it how it does things. It concentrates on performing better and more consistant service. And it asks for a fair return for it's products.

So the question is; Would you rather return to the earlier days where there were no businesses engineering new and improved products for our cars? Or can you accept the fact that access to this knowledge is not free?

I, for one, an delighted that there are businesses that work hard to provide replacement and upgraded parts for our 35 year old cars.

Eric Read

[DBCooper]

Geee, you guys are harsh! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I think i need to stay away from this site for a while ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif) Andy

OK, now I'm confused. Andy was first, so is Jake pulling an Andy, or is Andy pulling a Jake?

[Jake Raby]

You're not going anywhere, Jake. The last time you left this forum it was because 914 owners were all "cheapskates". Those were your words, no one else's. How long did that last?

See, I never said I was leaving because I am not.. (as you can see, I am still here)

Just seriously changing the amount of time I spend on forums and the way I engage in conversations.

Arguing and debating takes lots of energy, something I need as much of as possible as we march forward with new journeys with new people and a totally new engine platform.



This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Aug 9 2008, 11:56 PM

[Todd Enlund]

I have been missing the camaraderie of forums like this one, but certainly not the dramatic nonsense that sometimes comes with that....

I didn't mean for this post to be an advertisement and really over all these years I haven't meant to be anything more than any of you who are reading what I am writing here, right now... Thats certainly not what occurred and for that I do apologize.

The simple fact that you are a vendor will lead some to believe that everything that you post is intended to increase your business. Then, there are some who truly appreciate the knowledge that you share.

I think that it's great that we have you, George, Len, Dave, Craig, Mark, Mark, Mark, and all the others who care enough about our cars to do what they can to keep them alive, here and available to share opinions or facts.

It's all up to you to decide how much you can tolerate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[euro911]

I've done many 'outside of the box' modifications with Harleys over the years, and got a mixed-bag of comments on them. For the most part, I got good comments, but the reality is, you just can't please everybody. I've always thought that one's car (or bike, or song sheet) is just a blank canvas for you to create your own masterpiece on.

I try to keep my P-cars pretty original, mainly because most of them were purchased as investments, however, there ARE some modifications I plan to make on at least one of my 914's.

Some people might like the mods I'm planning, and others won't, but I'm the person who will reap the benefits from my accomplishments. If they find favor among the multitudes, well, that's just icing on the cake.

Creativity differs with the individual. Not everybody will like or accept ideas you bring forth, but the key thing here is: Don't let it wear you down. Do what you want to do.


Some of you older guys might remember these words:

"You know that some people are different, now ain't that a crying shame. Now wouldn't it be a real drag, if we were all the same". Savoy Brown

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[DBCooper]

See, I never said I was leaving because I am not.. (as you can see, I am still here)

Just seriously changing the amount of time I spend on forums and the way I engage in conversations.

So this drama is all just because you intend to post less?


Mark, the wisdom of Savoy Brown? That's down, and I'm thoroughly impressed.

[turbo914v8]

This isn't accomplished with challenges and pissing matches or the running off of members who are not "thick skinned". You say toughen up, I say think before you speak.

In concept I totally agree...... In a perfect world we would all encourage each other no matter how silly, repulsive or different. I'm sorry it's unfortunately just not that way in our world.

In reality it will never happen. Some people are rude, obnoxious, like to argue and are control freaks. You can't control that no matter how much we plea for it. However, you CAN recognize that this behavior is out of your control and choose to not let it bother you. That's where being thick skinned has it's payoff. It's simply a method of dealing with these type personalities since you can't stop them. You can't force people to change to the better but you can choose to ignore them......It's a simple matter of dealing with the action instead of trying to change people. It's a choice we all have....and it's much easier

Its not that I don’t agree with you here being thick skinned does have its perks, but you forgot another alternative that we can control. Just don’t post. It’s far easier that way. The creativity is not lost we are still doing our own crazy stuff, however its this forum and its members that will suffer for those few individuals that think they know it all. Me personally I don’t care what any one says. I do what I want to my teen. I just don’t have the time to be bullied or to argue with other members that don’t get it. I still share my accomplishments and horrible failures with other members on this board, the individuals I consider my friends. I post SOME ideas and thoughts in an effort to help others but past experiences have shown me that I need to stop there in order to fort the know it all.

[brer]

sorry andy. you're always fair and I respect your opinion.
I'm not complaining, but adding a probably unneccessary observation. You've got a pretty strong core of posters here and I suppose its not really an issue how it is. Inclusive/exclusive or whatever is cool and I'm just taking a personal interest which I shouldn't do really.

[r_towle]

Jake, thank you.

DBCooper,,whoever you are...you seem to be looking for a fight.
Go out and drive your car at an Autox...its actually fun.

Andy, I personally love your bumper, and its even better now that you molded it into the fenders.


I think this thread has run its course.

Rich

[grantsfo]

No lack of creativity here.
The second attachment may be a bit stifling tho.
No "massives" here......or nobody would admit to it.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Andrew did make a comeback on the 2nd day to take 914 TTOD for the day.

Plenty of creativity and complete acceptance at that event of anything from rabbit rod T4's, 3.6 liter sixes, twin plug small bore sixes, even a Massive powered cars were welcomed! Sixes and small displacement home grown T4's ruled the fast times. ...The Massive not so much. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) It was cool to see all the great variations going against each other.

I think perhaps limiting of creativity is made up in some peoples heads. I think as long as you pick your platform and do proper amount of research anything is good. I actually found negative comments about my six conversion to help me guide project out of a couple pitfalls - didnt stop my creativity with small bore twin plug conversion even after people said it was stupid to go that direction. Seems to me some with big Bore T4 dreams in their heads just dont like to hear about the issues in going into uncharted waters with big displacement motors. Nothing wrong with big T4 but they do have drawbacks . Subarus are awesome. V8's are tough to pull off well but they are fun! In my opinion sixes are most flexible in meeting all needs of the 914 owner and they are time tested.

I didnt let anyone on any of the silly 914 boards ever stop my plans but I did listen to all feedback as one additional reference point during my conversion. I think variety of opinions is greatest service to the community. I'd worry about somone who would allow a negative 914 message board post to stop their plans? Thats just weird? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Most of the true 914 and Porsche powerplant experts I have met dont ever post on these boards!

As far as creativity being limited I have seen posts on triple rotor 20b motor car being built, V6's, lots of V8's, Subi's, lots of sixes and even a couple brave and wealthy souls doing big T4 conversions.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Aug 10 2008, 07:54 PM