RAT 2056 140hp vs 2270 145hp?, Which one to choose and why? Options

[auerbach]

My 914 is going in for some engine work and I am considering one of Jake's kits, either the 2056 140hp or the 2270 145hp package. Any thoughts any comments?

The car is going to be an aggressive weekend summer driver -- to autocross or track. I just want to drive the hell out of it.

[Chris Pincetich]

I drove a sweet 914 with jake's 2270 owned by Rob and I would buy that in a heartbeat. I takes at least $2k extra parts to get near the full potential out of the kit, but the results are awesome.
The 2056 can likely use OEM injection and exhaust to reach near its potential, so the build costs are primarily just the kit.
Get the 2.3 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[VaccaRabite]

the 2056 140 is not your typical 2056. If you are choosing between them, get the 2270. In my mind, then 140 is more high strung, and may not last as long. The 2270 145 should last, and should give power a little earlier.

The 140hp 2056 can not use stock injection. Jakes 2056 kit that can use the stock D-jet is limited to 110 or 115 hp.

[Al Meredith]

I built one of Jakes 2056 kits last year. It is in my 912E and runs very strong. My dyno report is just as Jake says it will be . About 108 HP at the rear wheels (120 at the flywheel) with at least 120 FtLbs from 2800 RPM all the way to 5500 RPM. I recommend it to anyone. Oh I'm running 40MM carbs and have since installed the Mallory distand a Bursch exhaust....should be stronger now.

[ConeDodger]

Those kits have evolved a bit since those numbers were put forth... Jake has recently made more HP than my 2270 with a 2056.

I have about $2500 in the Tangerine Header, another $1000 in the Dellortos. Probably another $1000 in peripheral systems and gauges. So close to the cost of the kit in "extras".

I don't think you can build a 2270 and not put on the "extras" I have listed. Anything short of it and you are causing harm to the motor. For one thing, these motors seem to be very exhaust dependent. If you are not willing to spend for the extras, consider the 2056 with stockish djet.

I have never driven a 2056 so I cannot claim to know one is better over the other. I just know that McMark has driven mine and his and he seems to really like mine. That says a lot to me.

Chris did come back with a grin after driving mine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DanT]

depends on what you want.

If you don't want to spend money on the extras, then build a 2056 and use your stock injection.
That is what I did, and I am very happy with my motor for the $$ I put into it.

[ConeDodger]

depends on what you want.

If you don't want to spend money on the extras, then build a 2056 and use your stock injection.
That is what I did, and I am very happy with my motor for the $$ I put into it.

This is exactly what I would have done if I had Dan's talent. But since I don't, I will nip at his heals like a little yap dog with my 30-40 more HP (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DanT]

I was only able to do it with the capable help of a Porsche factory trained engine builder.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

now I want to find a small bore MFI 6 to drop in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[McMark]

The 140hp 2056 is not a stock injection setup. Count on carbs for that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I will know about the 140hp 2056 first hand in a few weeks. I'm building one now and will install it and tune it.

My 2056 is the 'mild' 110hp or so. It's a blast to drive. The best part is the WIDE powerband. Rob's 2270 is just like that only more.

Set up a phone appointment with Jake and talk with him directly. One of the great things is that he will take the time to chat with you about which setup is right for you.

[sww914]

I was only able to do it with the capable help of a Porsche factory trained engine builder.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

now I want to find a small bore MFI 6 to drop in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Don't we (almost) all?

[DanT]

I was only able to do it with the capable help of a Porsche factory trained engine builder.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

now I want to find a small bore MFI 6 to drop in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Don't we (almost) all?

I did 85-90% of the rebuild. He would show me something or just point and explain.
so I did the majority of it, but without his mentoring I would probably have a non-running pile of parts still.

[ConeDodger]

I was only able to do it with the capable help of a Porsche factory trained engine builder.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

now I want to find a small bore MFI 6 to drop in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Don't we (almost) all?

I did 85-90% of the rebuild. He would show me something or just point and explain.
so I did the majority of it, but without his mentoring I would probably have a non-running pile of parts still.

I did the same. 85-90% myself. Mark and I learned a lot from each other. I relearned how to build an engine. Mark learned that it takes 3 times as long and he can't keep his concentration when he builds an engine with someone else in the room... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Trevorg7]

I was only able to do it with the capable help of a Porsche factory trained engine builder.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

now I want to find a small bore MFI 6 to drop in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Sell me your 2056 when you get your six, pick up will be a snap.

T

[DanT]

I was only able to do it with the capable help of a Porsche factory trained engine builder.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

now I want to find a small bore MFI 6 to drop in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Sell me your 2056 when you get your six, pick up will be a snap.

T

Trevor, you will have to repaint the engine tin.

the Phoenix Red will clash a bit with your blue car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

but it will really stand out when you open the engine lid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[McMark]

Blue + Orange = Gulf! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Trevorg7]

I was only able to do it with the capable help of a Porsche factory trained engine builder.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

now I want to find a small bore MFI 6 to drop in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Sell me your 2056 when you get your six, pick up will be a snap.

T

Trevor, you will have to repaint the engine tin.

the Phoenix Red will clash a bit with your blue car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

but it will really stand out when you open the engine lid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Hmmm, paint or new tin!

Someone came up to me the other day at my son's baseball game and said "there is this orange 914 around here with a #5 painted on it" I said yeah that's Dan's car. He went on to rave about how awesome it sounded. Not sure where or when he saw it be it made an impression. I told him you were a better driver than it sounded (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

T

[Jake Raby]

First off:
You are making a mistake!! NEVER look at only peak numbers to make an engine selection! Doing so will compromise the majority of the power that you can benefit from when driving the car!

The main difference between the 2056-140 and the 2270-145 is where the power is made and the entire powerband. The 2056 engine is stock stroke and more "peaky" than the 2270 due to the 7mm difference in stroke that the two engine's share.

The 2056 is easier to assemble and cheaper, but with my extensive prep service all engines assemble equally since we do the majority of critical set up for you.

The 2270 has much more torque down low and has a broader more easy to drive power band than the 2056. This makes for a car that your wife can drive or something that you can take to the track or AX and have a good chance of being competitive with.

There is a reason why the 2270 has been my most favorite all around engine and 85% of what we build as Turn Key packages.

Look at average HP and remember that HP is always higher than torque only above 5,252 RPM.. When you are driving above this RPM ALL THE TIME the peak numbers will actually be useful- not till then.

[johannes]

That's absolutelly obvious if you watch to the torque and power curves of both engines.

I have done a bit of phototshop work on the curves provided by Jake.
(I hope you don't mind Jake)

I superposed the two 140/145hp (2056/2270cc) engine curves

It's obvious that despite a very close peak power the 2270cc will provide much more torque and power from 2500 to 5000 rpm ( 20 more HP around 4000 rpm )

[Jake Raby]

Thanks Johannes...
Thats exactly what needed to be posted as it illustrates what I tried to put into words..

BUT You'd have to drive the difference to fully comprehend it. I have driven all of these combinations as I have developed them and without a doubt the 2270 is my most favorite.