New suspension for Papa Smurf, ..or...how to spend a lot of $$ and get lots of benefit Options

[naro914]

I thought I would share the latest upgrade we've done to Papa Smurf.

Over the years, the Carrera suspension on our 914 has been getting a bit "soft". the springs were shot - one was up higher on the perch in the back than the other, and all 4 shocks were leaking. So, after finally putting the budget together to get it all corrected, we took the plunge last month...

If any of you followed the build of Matteo Amoroso's killer 911 RSR build on Pelican Parts, or read about it in Excellence, you know it was built by Zuffenhaus here in Charlotte. One day while it was up on the lift, I noticed the wonderful front end suspension on it. So, I inquired, and started down the slippery slope to emptying my bank account.

What we now have is the 935 suspension conversion, with Fox remote resevoir coil overs all around, welded in camber boxes and adjustment plates, 375 springs around, reinforced rear trailing arm, monoball, and probably a bunch of other things I don't know about.

the work took about 2 weeks with all the cutting and welding, installation, etc.

We drove it on the track a week and a half ago to start sorting it out. We lowered the car another 1", and were finally able to give it some negative camber (we had not been able to adjust the camber enough at the height we wanted before) Right off the bat I noticed how much easier the steering was, and how much more responsive the handling was. We found we needed to take off the rear sway bar as I was getting a lot of rear wheel hop in fast corners (no, I don't have LSD yet....next years budget)

It was an absolute joy to drive. My wife, Nadine, even commented how easy is was. I went were we pointed it. It stuck MUCH better than it ever had.

We spent the weekend tweeking and tuning out anything we could find. And we really noticed the changes. Money well spent!!

Here are a few pictures of the suspension from right after we got home. Excuse how dirty it is...it got a lot of track time in 2 days!

[naro914]

more pics

[naro914]

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[Joe Ricard]

SHA WING.

I mean damn that's HOT!!!!!!!!!!!


Anything other than that is just understatement.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

[J P Stein]

I've been eyeballin' that A arm set up for years. I've heard it doesn't hold alignment well, but now we have you to find out fer sure if that's true or not. User reports are mo better than sales pitches in my book. Maybe some input after the season?

Fox shocks are also a question mark.

[naro914]

One of the simple, but amazingly useful things Aaron at Zuffenhaus did was paint mark EVERY nut an bolt so we can see if anything moves. Not that it's an exact indicator, but couldn't hurt.

Actually, I know a few people that have Fox and really like them. For one, they are A LOT cheaper than Moton, JRZ etc.

914's aren't quite as finiky about set up like a 911 anyway. Plus, at 1900 lbs.....

I will give updates as the season goes on. I've got 3 - maybe 4 - PCA Club Races, and 4-5 DE's. Both Nadine and I drive the DE's, so it will definitely get a workout.

But wow, was it nice to drive the first weekend. No understeer, no oversteer....just point and shoot. And like I said, it was so EASY to drive. And it felt so light too...

Oh, I took 3 seconds off my lap times too.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[naro914]

Someone PM'd me about the brakes....

They are 993 rear brakes on the front. The mounting holes on the calipers ALMOST fit the normal spindle mounts - you have to wallow out the holes on the calipers about 1/4 inch to the inside of each, but that's it. I'm even using the Carrera rotors I had from before.

Been using this set up for a year now, on both 914's. Stopping is amazing....stops like a 993, very firm pedal, not a lot of pedal travel.

Slowly but surely, Papa Smurf is getting done....only taken 15 years so far!

[J P Stein]

Plus, at 1900 lbs.....

Thar's with driver like mine, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[naro914]

no, that's without driver... trying to get it down another 100 lbs. I can come up with a few things, but not 100 lbs. and I don't want to chop the top quite yet...

[J P Stein]

Mine is a 74 also. Our doors weigh 64lbs each. My gutted early doors now weigh 20 lbs each. Hay, it's a race car, eh? Not to be a smartass, but the other 12lbs could come from that black thingy in your rear trunk that is (IMO) ....nuthin' but road hugging weight.

[naro914]

yep, still gotta do the doors, took out the windows and sliders, but not the inners... and I'm gonna take out the rear window and replace with lexan.

The black thing in the rear trunk is a Camber Truss by Stable Energies. Basically a triangulated strut tower brace. Works great, and it noticable when it's out.

[J P Stein]

I know what it is and if your happy, so be it.
I took a different route to chassis stiffness and even with 80-90 lbs of tubing got mine to 1724. Lopping the top is not everyones cup of tea, but 40ish pounds......
A few ideas for you. The muffler is 13lbs

[naro914]

Very nice!
Haven't had a muffler in years - headers to straight megaphones.

[Chris Pincetich]

AWESOME (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
That front system is blowin my mind...looks like it fits great and is probably super light. Your touring/racing stories have always been some of my favorites on 914World, and now you've out-done yourself with this new build.
Do you remember what rear suspension bushings were installed?

[sww914]

Your car weighs about the same as mine and I'm about to do coilovers on my car. Do you mind sharing your spring rates and tire sizes with me? I'd like to have a place to start with the springs.

[naro914]

Your car weighs about the same as mine and I'm about to do coilovers on my car. Do you mind sharing your spring rates and tire sizes with me? I'd like to have a place to start with the springs.

Sure. I have 375 lb springs all around. Wheels are 11 x 16 front and 12 x 16 rear. I also have a set of 10 front and 11 rear that I use as backup. I can't find another set of these wheels, their called "Light Speed" and the company that built them went out of business I'm told. they are amazingly light - you can pick up the wheel with tire on it with one hand and mount it on the wheel studs at standing up eye level if you had to.

Funny how the wheels are offset. Rears need about a 2" spacer for both sets, but the 11" fronts don't need any spacers, and the 10" fronts need a 2" spacer. Honestly a royal PITA to change them since nothing matches from set to set, so I have to change both sides each time.

[naro914]

so....I was standing under the car earlier this afternoon and started thinking of all the places to lose weight (thanks JP, now you got me thinking of MORE work I gotta do!!). First, the doors could probably lose about 30+ lbs each (I had already had the windows and mechanisms out); the rear glass is a few lbs; I started to notice all the undercoating when I took the pictures; I also realized it still has all the sound deadening on the floors!, so there's more weight. Oh, and the driver could stand to lose a few lbs too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

All together, I think I could get that 100 lbs out. Can't go much lower or it puts me out of GT5 class in PCA Club Racing - me and the car can't be below 2000 lbs.

Chris, not sure about the suspension bushings, unless you are referring to the polybronze on the trailing arms? I'll check the invoice for anything else.
Oh, and I changed the transmission mount to the WEVO semi solid mount. You can see them in the picture of the exhaust.

one of these days when I get a chance to put everything together, I'm going to post all the build pictures on my naroescapemotorsports.com website. Just haven't had a chance to collect everything....

[J P Stein]

Well, since you're pondering....Adding tubes from the cage to the suspension towers made a HUGE difference in the chassis stiffness. The car now acts as a piece, rather than the front & rear ends doing their own things....the suspension now works as suspension should rather than have chassis flex being part of the equation. The car reacts the same consistently and that is confidence inspiring. It also helps alleviate the rear towers from the loads caused by stiff springs. The joints between the frame rail & towers are shaky at best. I found cracks at the bottom front of the towers/bulkhead/frame prior to installing the tubing. Some say when you get around 300 lb rear springs is when the troubles start....I can believe it.

My car is an AXer.....certainly not legal for W2W. I run a muffler for the balance tube effect.....at autocross, torque is great while top end is just good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[naro914]

A lot of what you mention translates well to road racing too. Papa Smurf is not a good autocrosser - too wide - I keep clipping cones.

We welded tubes from the rear trailing arm mounts to the frame for support, boxed the trailing arms, and ran a few other stiffening supports. Not nearly to the extent you did.... which give me some ideas for the future.

Any pics of the rear trunk area with the support tubes?

[J P Stein]

Not much to look at, just 2 tubes from the cage to towers...an in-progress pic.
A pic of this winter's suspension ear reinforcement.