Peter's Progress Options

[pjf]

Your work looks very good Peter who makes the outer long piece?
Thanks,
Charliew

Thanks. The last piece I added to the long comes from Restoration Design (http://www.restoration-design.com/). Its part number P346R, frame stiffener. Not cheap ($150) but for me I think its going to be worth it. I checked with AutoAtlanta recently and they no longer carry them.

[charliew]

Thanks Peter I just ordered a set but it looks like maybe they are out of stock. Maybe they make them as needed. Also it looked like there are some triangle supports that go on top to support the sill. Will I need to remove those and put them on top of the new outers? If its obvious don't bother with replying I will go back and study the threads when I have time. I haven't taken the car apart yet. I'm just getting as many stiffener parts as I can. I love to fabricate. Also it looks like you used weld through primer, great job.
Charliew

[pjf]

Too bad about the overlays for the longs. I think you'll be happy with them when they finally do show up. I think anything you can do to stiffen the car will be worth it. They eventually learned (I'm told) that a car has to be good and stiff to give a good ride. Yes, you need supporting triangles on the overlay (2 on each side I believe) to support the sill. The triangles used to come with the new sills but for some reason that stopped happening. In the "Bring out the dead" thread you can see how to fabricate them from scratch. I'm going to try to salvage the ones I took off before making up new ones. Yes, I did try to use weld-thru primer whenever possible. The stuff I used really didn't interfere with the weld. I was expecting some effect but there wasn't any I could tell.

[pjf]

I found out yesterday that AutoAtlanta will be getting some sill triangles in the future and they are going to send me 4 for the 2 sills I bought from them. No idea when they'll come in but if you order sills from them you should be able to get the triangles for the sills even if they come later. I would get a commitment from them about the triangles before you order.

[pjf]

Tonight I started the left side long by drilling out the spot welds for the sill near the back where the long is rusted out. After 7 spot welds it occurs to me that I'm going to remove the whole outer long piece so I don't have to remove the sill. It can come off with the long piece. I hate it when I do unnecessary work. So next I started drilling out the spot welds of the top edge of the outer long as you can see.

[pjf]

Then another epiphany hits me. I should be welding on the Engman inner reinforcement piece before I open up the long. That way it will be as strong as possible to resist any warping due to the welds. The hardest part of putting in one of these I've found is preparing the area to accept the piece. In particular there is seam sealer in the corners (especially the front bottom) that is really stubborn. It prevents the piece from mating up well with the inner long. I tried an air chisel, wood chisel and hammer, even pryed at it with a screwdriver. The stuff is just soft enough to stick in place. In a moment of desperation I grabbed my drill with the spot weld cutter still in it and voila! It ground out the crap in no time and was small enough to fully reach into the corner.

[pjf]

Here's the Engman piece laid up in place. I found that the front vertical edge of the Engman piece needed to be ground down a small amount to fit. I remember the other side was the same way. Here's the piece laid up. It just has to be pressed slightly to come up flush with the inner long. I next have to clean up things and mark and grind where the welds will hit the inner long.

[charliew]

Paul good pictures, A couple of suggestions, if you have a die grinder a set of carbide burrs will really help you out when you need to elongate holes in brackets and other things but I bet you would love what they do to the sealer. I never used them for that but I bet they would work, if the sealer sticks to the burr you could alternate cutters and soak them in laquer thinner or whatever removes the sealer. I guess they would also work in a drill.
The other thing is are you going to use a tube rollbar? If you are will you use a plate that welds to the long? Would it not be a good thing to weld the plate to the original long and then cut the Engman long to fit around it and therefore both pieces would be tied together to the plate?
I haven't decided on a rolbar or not but I think I will install some drilled and tapped plates for the future.
Another question, I don't see any door gap braces. Do you not think the door gaps will change while you are doing this procedure?
Oh yeah, David at Restoration Design called and said they were starting to tool up for some more outer long addons so it won't be long to get them. I guess I'll need some new sills and triangles to put back on them. I don't think I can remove the originals without destroying them.
Going great keep at it.
Charliew

[pjf]

I do have some burrs and have used them to elongate the hole on the Engman piece that fits over the seatbelt attachement point. For some reason it was slightly off on both sides. I suppose the burrs would work but I don't have one in a shape that will get the last bit out of a tight corner like the one at the bottom of the forward end. I know its tool abuse but I was desperate. I don't plan on using a tube rollbar but if I did I agree that attaching it to the original metal makes sense and then tying the Engman piece to it. As far as bracing goes, I have braces in on both doors and between the windshield and rollbar. The brace on the left side picture is just out of the field of view so you can't see it. I wouldn't think about working on either long without bracing. As it is I'm going to look at finding a local Celette bench in case I even suspect that any of the dimensions have changed. Hopefully I can afford it as I'm sure its going to be $$$$$$. I'm glad Restoration Design is tooling up and they can make the long overlays for you. They've always treated me well. They don't have sills though (at least when I asked recently). Every place that had them only has the sill. Watch out though as the website pictures can show the triangles attached to the sill and you think you're getting the whole enchalada. Only AutoAtlanta has offered to send me the triangles once they get them in stock. I looks to me that when the sill is gone, the triangles aren't worth much either. Good luck with your project.

[IronHillRestorations]

Can I suggest more welding practice?

If your weld beads are that high and proud you may not be getting sufficient penetration. Flatter welds with correct penetration don't require as much grinding, and are much stronger.

Heck of a project!

[charliew]

You can see the penetration on his previous post. It's hard to get good welds on old metal through a small hole. A little more heat might be better and maybe less wire. That old metal may be thinner than it looks. Fixing a blowthrough is a pain. I always seem to put on too much wire and end up grinding more than most. My best friend is a fabricator by trade and he is pretty gentle with me when I ask for his input. I am amazed at watching him wave the gun around and then look at his perfect beads. I don't jump around near as much but my beads don't have the nice even width and height his do. He can't see any better than me but it sure looks like it by his welds. I wish I could tig like him but there isn't enough time left to get his experience.
Lookin good Peter
Charliew

[pjf]

Advice well taken. I have to admit looking back at my photos that there are some pretty high welds in there. Whenever possible I check the backside of a weld for evidence that I got the penetration I know I have to have for the weld to be worth anything. With these rosette welds I try to burn in the center as much as possible for penetration but with old metal underneath blowing through is always a problem and you can't use as much heat as you'd like. With the welds at the rear end of the long overlay this was particularly a problem. This meant less heat and more buildup than I wanted. Before the buildup though I tried to apply as much heat as possible without blowing through. Its a balancing act. Hopefully there are enough redundant welds (repaired long then overlay) and they are of sufficient quality that there is a good amount of strength in this critical area. Needless to say I'm going to have my fingers crossed when I drive over my first section of rough road!

[charliew]

Peter you can try setting the heat for the new metal and starting on the new metal and trailing off on the old metal keeping most of the heat on the new metal, it's like welding two thicknesses of sheetmetal, always concentrate the bulk of the heat on the thicker piece.
Charliew