Basic painting questions Options

[KaptKaos]

I have a few panels (hoods and trunks) that I want to try the $50 roller paint job on. For those that don't know about it, here's a good site with a link to the original thread on the mopar board:

$50 Paint Job

Before anyone gets all pissy with me, please understand that I have 3 kids and a stay at home wife. I need to be a CSOB.

With that out of the way, here is a pic from that guy's website:

(IMG:http://rickwrench.com/images-sounds/rustweb/vairbeforepaint.jpg)

You'll notice the layers of paint on the body of the Corvair.

My hood that I have been working on has a few layers too. I used chemical stripper and got parts down to bare metal, others just wouldn't budge. What's the best way to smooth all of that out? The $50 thread says to paint over it. I did that but it left the contours of the old spots in the new paint on my first try at this.

For what it's worth, I am practicing on a few panels to see if it works and if I like it. Not sure I will ever go this route.

The guy on the site with the corvair makes a good point. If you're not going whole hog on a paint job ($5k plus kind of job) is this any worse than Earl Scheib? And, if I were to go the whole hog on a paint job, I would be stripping the car anyway.

So there it is. I am a noob at painting and appreciate any advice.

Thanks!

[sww914]

At this stage I'd say that you will decrease the value of the car by rolling paint on it. I think that you'll be better off just to buy a cheap spray gun and some catalyzed automotive primer and prime the car nicely. That cheap paint makes another large project out of ever getting the car right later because you can't work over the cheap paint, you have to remove it. With primer, you can work over it more later without the need to remove a whole coat of something first.

[roadster fan]

I tried this process on a scrap piece of 16 guage about 6"x12". I was impressed with the results but am a little concerned about the time involved in doing a whole car. The materials were cheap, the process easy, and the results where good.

Hotrod magazine did a car in 1 week sometime last year IIRC(Ford Falcon), and they described the results as being a good "15 footer" IIRC. My test panel was a good "1 footer" but we are talking about sanding and painting a small panel not a whole car. If I was gonna do a whole car I would plan on a nice "5 footer" job when I was done.

For your car just make sure you block sand the whole car feathering all the paint still on the car. For a great job you will have to do all the same prep you would do for a $5,000 paint job, but you will save money depending on what your time is worth. I calculate that worth by what I can make at work on OT minus the enjoyment, education, and satisfaction I can get by doing it myself. Sometimes I do the job myself, sometimes I pay someone to do it for me.

The professional painters here will tell you to get it sprayed I think, If you are looking for a paint job that looks good, will be parked indoors, and you have the time to dedicate to the job I say do the $50 paint job. I think the area that most people skimp on, preparation before the actual painting, is the critical factor in the quality of the final finish. Sand, sand, sand some more until you can't stand to sand anymore. Then sand some more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif). There is a reason the quality professional job costs $5k...........time.

Sorry for the long post, I have just been thinking alot about this very issue.

Hope this helps,

Jim

[davesclassicvws]

This method is not new by any means. All cars in the early days were painted with a brush you even had a wide choice of colors (black, black or black). Of course enamel paint had yet to be invented but is was a common practice to paint your car with a brush.
In the boating world painting with a brush or roller is the main way to paint. The marine paints flow very well and you can cut and buff them to perfection.

[charliew]

There's a chance a good catalyzed primer will wrinkle the old paint. If you are not going to remove the old stuff just put whatever you want on it. Just remember it will lower whatever the worth is now because it's just more work to get all the paint off to do it right. I don't think you will ever be happy with a crummy attempt. There is no easy way to get a decent paint job cheap.
Doing a good paint job takes lots of patience. I don't use cheap paint because I usually have so much sweat and blood in the effort I want it to outlast me.

The corvair looks great for the money spent. I have some lawn furniture I painted with rustoleum about twenty years ago. It has been under a awning. It needs repainting but has held up really well. It is dull and faded but protected the metal really well. I think I also used rustoleum primer.

Charliew

[Thack]

Any painter will tell you that the prep work is where the "magic" starts. Fancy paints look great but you can get by on lesser paint. You would think you could just paint over the old paint but the multi-layered "base coat" will show through, especially with lighter colors.
You could get people to donate to you some sand paper becuase that's the prep you'll have to do. Sometimes you can't even primer over old paint because the old paint reacts with the primer. Borrow a dual action sander and a compresser for the tough stuff then learn the fine art of block sanding. You can do it! Good luck!

[KaptKaos]

Any painter will tell you that the prep work is where the "magic" starts. Fancy paints look great but you can get by on lesser paint. You would think you could just paint over the old paint but the multi-layered "base coat" will show through, especially with lighter colors.
You could get people to donate to you some sand paper becuase that's the prep you'll have to do. Sometimes you can't even primer over old paint because the old paint reacts with the primer. Borrow a dual action sander and a compresser for the tough stuff then learn the fine art of block sanding. You can do it! Good luck!

Ok, a few questions:

1) I have an electric palm sander. It's square and oscillates. Will that get me through the prep or do I need a rotary one?
2) Should I use chemical strippers to go to bare metal or should I use primer?
3) Will primer fill in the peaks and valleys of the paint? Will primer eventually sand smooth?
4) How long of a block sander do I need?

Thanks for the help fellas!

[rick 918-S]

Any painter will tell you that the prep work is where the "magic" starts. Fancy paints look great but you can get by on lesser paint. You would think you could just paint over the old paint but the multi-layered "base coat" will show through, especially with lighter colors.
You could get people to donate to you some sand paper becuase that's the prep you'll have to do. Sometimes you can't even primer over old paint because the old paint reacts with the primer. Borrow a dual action sander and a compresser for the tough stuff then learn the fine art of block sanding. You can do it! Good luck!

Ok, a few questions:

1) I have an electric palm sander. It's square and oscillates. Will that get me through the prep or do I need a rotary one?

Yes, that will be fine.

2) Should I use chemical strippers to go to bare metal or should I use primer?

Depends on how much paint is on the car. 3 or four paint jobs on tehcar, Yes! If your working over the factory finish and it's fair in condition, (not peeling off in big spots) you should be able to paint over it.

OR if it looks like that Corvair with sanding rings everywhere (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) yes! It's easier to strip the paint off that try to fill all those bananas and islands oll over the place. It will save time and materials and deliver a better finish.

3) Will primer fill in the peaks and valleys of the paint? Will primer eventually sand smooth?

How about some photos..

4) How long of a block sander do I need?

Get someone close by you with some experience to come over and get you started in the right direction. And DON"T paint it with a brush... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Lots of guys have posted here showing photos of their home paint jobs. On a calm morning you can spray it in your driveway and get a near perfect job.

Thanks for the help fellas!

[KaptKaos]

Rick,

Been waiting for you to chime in (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The hood I have been experimenting on looked worse than the corvair. Four levels of paint (factory primer, original yellow, red and then black primer). Somw of the area I was able to get down to bare metal, others, I couldn't touch the yellow as it was as hard as a rock.

So I am doing this to learn and see how it goes. Nothing will be painted until I am comfortable.

If I want to spray it, how big of a compressor do I need? I need an excuse to buy one anyway.

[rick 918-S]

Rick,

Been waiting for you to chime in (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The hood I have been experimenting on looked worse than the corvair. Four levels of paint (factory primer, original yellow, red and then black primer). Somw of the area I was able to get down to bare metal, others, I couldn't touch the yellow as it was as hard as a rock.

So I am doing this to learn and see how it goes. Nothing will be painted until I am comfortable.

If I want to spray it, how big of a compressor do I need? I need an excuse to buy one anyway.

There is no point it trying to fill over all those broken edges. Strip it. In most cases you should be able to use your electric sander with 36-40 grit and strip the crap off. Let the paper do the work. It takes time. Don't damage the part by over heating or denting the panel with the sander.

Are you saying you can't touch the yellow with the sander? After breaking the surface with 36-40 grit try a little stripper. The stripper works better if you break the surface.

18-19 CFM is the rule of thumb for the old syphon feed guns.

P.S. Believe it or not I have two electric DA sanders in my garage. I've used them several times. You don't always need to buy a big compressor right away. make due with you have for now.

[KaptKaos]

36 or 40 grit sand paper? Isn't that a little harsh? I sure don't want to scratch the metal too much.

[rick 918-S]

Don't worry about it. You won't. Get that topographical map off that hood. BTW: If you run into some stuborn paint you can use a heat gun and warm it up. As it starts to soften, use a sharp putty knife and slide it off. or heat the paint and then apply stripper. These methods work best on the 2nd or third paint job cars. The original finish will be hard as nails. Your best bet is to just sand the original finsh or what you can't strip easily.

Use common sense and don't overheat the metal or burn the paint too much or you will scorch the paint on the back of the panel. Then you'll have another issue to deal with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[Thack]

Good advice from Rick.
I had a small compressor at first. You are looking to have enough power to run the paint gun and not have a pressure loss as you go across the panel with quite a few strokes. Your compressor will most lkely be running the whole time. Stop for a few seconds when you move over for the next set of strokes.
The more paint you can take off the better. As long as it smooths out (and you will be able to tell when you do all of this) you don't have to go all the way down to the metal.
On another note, be watchful for bondo. Know what it looks like so your not sanding the hell out of it. You'll be putting more Bondo on again unless you are going to bang out the dents.
Spray some primer and if you see ridges or lines, you haven't sanded enough.

[zonedoubt]

There was some discussion of this technique on The Samba:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic...&highlight=

I have a few panels (hoods and trunks) that I want to try the $50 roller paint job on. For those that don't know about it, here's a good site with a link to the original thread on the mopar board:

$50 Paint Job

[Todd Enlund]

I have a paint question... how can I find a store that sells auto paint supplies? All that I have been able to find are body shops... no retail outlets.

[KaptKaos]

I have a paint question... how can I find a store that sells auto paint supplies? All that I have been able to find are body shops... no retail outlets.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[Gint]

Phone book - Auto Body Shop Equipment and Supplies section. Works for me here in Denver with Dexonline.com In fact it gave me a few for Bend OR also. And if you can't find paint and body shop supplies in SoCal, well...

[rick 918-S]

As a last resort go to NAPA. Their ever place and they usually carry a limited amount of auto body supplies and paint. On second thought forget it. The last time I used their filler brand I had to shape it with a grinder. Maybe they've improved their product line over the last ten years or so, but your better off not taking a chance on a limited budget. Visit a local body shop. Look for one with a Dupont sign. Dupont is the most amature friendly in my opinion. Find where they purchase their stuff.

[KaptKaos]

So if I wanted to buy a compressor, albeit a small one, what should I look for?

[KaptKaos]

So I got some more Jasco stripper and some 60 grit paper and set to work.

Took a few hours but got it down to bare metal.



There was some rust spots, and I sanded those down and hit them with naval jelly. Cleaned it all up and shot it with some primer.



So there's the basics. If I get time tomorrow, I'll roll on a coat too =)