Replacing my Brakes Options

[purple]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) that's the first time i've been described as highly motivated!

normally the teachers said..."he's very bright, but needs to apply himself better"

Nice, thanks for the compliment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[purple]

Some progress and some questions:

I put the front brake lines back on and banged the new races into the new rotors, no problems there. I also put the rear hats on and was getting ready to mount the calipers when I noticed something...

My rear calipers have no gears! At least that's what I think is going on. When you take the inner adjuster covers off, there are supposed to be little gears that drop out, right? nothing of the sort came out, and nothing that looks adjustable is down that hole. The old calipers look just like the new calipers, meaning the new calipers dont have gears, and niether do the old ones!

Can you guys post pics of what these 'gears' look like please?

Thanks!

[Eric_Shea]

The old calipers look just like the new calipers, meaning the new calipers dont have gears, and niether do the old ones!

That be why we don't include them... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Too many cores come w/o gears and the gears are expensive. You're supposed to take the gears out of your cores and use them.

We need to get some gears coming your way.

[purple]

Been a while since I updated the thread...

Eric Shea has been a huge help in getting parts to me that either I didnt have or the PO took off the car ; like the rear caliper gears (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

When I took all the old calipers off, I had put saran wrap over the MC and tightened the cap.

Apparently when you leave the calipers off the car for that long....things leak out.

Yeah, I came back to the car after finally getting everything I need and find the master cylinder bone dry. Now I know i'm screwed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

After that, i find the bleeder/vacuum pump I bought at sears had a cracked reservoir and wouldnt hold vacuum. I replaced that and then got to bleeding.

A buddy recommended I wrap the bleeders threads in teflon so that they dont leak when I loosen them for bleeding. This actually didnt work, I got all kinds of air bubbles from around the bleeder nipple. I used grease to stop the air flowing by and it worked great!

I 'bled' the system and then push the brakes and the pedal feels like the gas pedal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) this is bad...

How do I bleed the system if the whole thing drained out? I have a 76, so do I use the top or the bottom bleeder on the calipers? I've never done this before, so any tips you guys have would be greatly appreciated!

How do you get all the air out of the system? Oh yeah, what size wrench do you need for the bleeders? it's a real bitch to try to tighten and loosen those with needle nose pliers!

[SLITS]

How do you get all the air out of the system? Oh yeah, what size wrench do you need for the bleeders? it's a real bitch to try to tighten and loosen those with needle nose pliers!

1.) Crack the connections at the MC and let them drip to fill it.

2.) Crack the connections at the Prop Valve to get the air out.

3.) Bleeders are 7mm.

[Eric_Shea]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) First off... it takes a "ton" of fluid and time and effort to get the system to bleed, especially if your MC went dry. Sometimes the main effort can be getting the MC fully loaded. Use Ron's drip method.

I don't recommend the vaccuum method. I like the buddy system on a 914.

Here's what a Proportioning valve looks like opened up:



Notice all the little places the air can get trapped. There's the large body and spring. The valve body has numerous holes in it to trap the air. Without getting into how this little bugger works, you can see there are plenty of places for air bubbles to attach themselves.

You can tap this with a plastic mallet or a wooden hammer handle etc. I like to crack the right rear bleeder and stomp on the pedal. This and the tapping will free up a lot of air trapped in the valve. Then crack the left rear and do it again.

Once you get a decent pedal I like to take it for a spin. A few bumpy roads and a few panic stops in a deserted parking lot and come back and re-bleed.

[sww914]

I've used plenty of pressure bleeders and vacuum bleeders and it almost always comes down to what Eric said- get a buddy to help you bleed them the old fashioned way. Often as he said it requires a drive down a bumpy road and a second bleed as well.

[purple]

thanks guys! Looks like the fiance will be coming to the garage with me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[purple]

I hate this car.

I want it out of my life. It drives like shit, and most importantly...doesnt stop.

I opened the MC fittings, they dripped right away, closed them back up. Opened the prop valve fittings up, they dripped right away, let them drip for a while, closed them back up.



I bled the brakes with the fiance like so:

I made sure the reservoir was full, I went to the right rear brake, had a tube over the bleeder down into the bucket of flushed brake fluid. opened the valve with the 7mm wrench while saying push! she's push the pedal and i would close the valve before she'd let the pedal back up. i had her stomp a few times and this worked nicely for getting lots of bubbles out. i didnt leave a corner until the bubbles stopped. always closing right after the pedal was to the floor.

I worked my way closer to the MC so the next one was the left rear, then the right front, then the left front. the right front had a ton of bubbles, so it took a while. I then went around all 4 corners again, no more bubbles at all.

i then try the pedal...it's worthless. it goes to the floor, no hard pedal.

i try to drive the car, and it runs like shit, for whatever reasons. I made that worse of course, i went from a weber progressive and 009 to a mallory unilite and dual weber 40's and it runs WORSE, but i digress.

Now I have 1000 dollars in brakes on this heap of shit and i can barely stop the stupid thing rolling backwards out of the garage. i drive it 100 feet and it just wont slow down unless the pedal is on the floor. i remember this car used to have a pretty hard pedal, this is rediculous. i drive it right back into the garage and am thankful i have a manual transmission car or it would have never stopped at all.

I seem to have the shit finger with this car. everything I touch...turns to shit. I change the carbs, i get backfires through them and small fires. I change the ignition and the thing still overheats. i clean the gas tank and now it leaks, i change the brakes and now it doesnt stop. I ask myself...why do I bother?

WTF can I do? is there anyone in houston who knows what they are doing when it comes to this car, not just the brakes, the whole car. I just cant seem to do ANY work right.

[Eric_Shea]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Hang tight... you're doing all the right things here. Just take them one at a time and work you way through these tough times.

Regarding the brakes: A LOT of times when a brake system is down the master cylinder decides to take a dump. I'm not at all sure why but, for some reason they go out often when they are left dry. Check around your pedal cluster and see if you have any brake fluid in the pedal cluster box. You might need a new MC.

Next, did you set your venting clearance to .004" yet?

Dual carbs can be finicky...there are some fairly standard procedures when setting carbs but, we'll probably need to know more than "it runs WORSE". Also, we'd need to know what it is you have done since putting the carbs on.

Breath and hang tight... there's a lot of people here who can help you get it sorted out.

[Spoke]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Next, did you set your venting clearance to .004" yet?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

If set too wide, the entire pedal push would be spent bringing the pads closer to the rotors and not stopping the car. You are close, don't give up now.

If your GF's pedal push expels fluid, the MC should be working.

These cars will test every ounce of your patience and skill. Tackle one problem at a time and don't look back.

For me, the fun of driving a 70's era sports car and the oogles I get from folks when they see a car so unique as the 914 makes all the pain worth while.

You could be like your buddies and get a modern ricer car, chip it, put some wheels on it, a fart can, a couple of subs, and be like everyone else. Or be trailblazer and change brakes, suspension pieces, mod the engine, and bring a classic sports car back to life.

Hang tight. These guys here will get you through it all.

Spoke

[John]

I'm really not sure what is happening with your brake issue.

You need to go back and bleed your brakes some more. Do as they suggest and check to make sure your venting clearance is set for your rear calipers.

When sitting in your garage, ready to bleed the brakes, can you get any firmness out of your brake pedal?

On my street car that I had apart a couple years ago, I went through 2 quarts of brake fluid before I started getting a decent pedal. I had all 4 calipers off and the system went dry. I just simply could not get all the air out. I think in my case, I had air trapped inside both the master cylinder AND my proportioning valve.

When bleeding brakes with the buddy system, have your buddy pump the brake pedal slowly but firmly and hold pressure on the pedal. While they are holding pressure, open the bleeder (on top) and then close the bleeder prior to the pedal being released.

The pedal should have some firmness while holding pressure after pumping the pedal.

I prefer pressure bleeding mine, but when the master cylinder has run dry, I will use the pressure bleeder and crack open one bleeder at a time and slowly depress the brake pedal and release it while still pressure bleeding. That helps force any trapped air out of the master cylinder.

Make sure you have a firm brake pedal prior to driving your car again. There is a reason your pedal goes to the floor. It won't get better by itself.

I am confident that the solution can be found.

As to your carbs, that is another topic.

just my $0.02

[purple]

I'm really not sure what is happening with your brake issue.

You need to go back and bleed your brakes some more. Do as they suggest and check to make sure your venting clearance is set for your rear calipers.

When sitting in your garage, ready to bleed the brakes, can you get any firmness out of your brake pedal?

On my street car that I had apart a couple years ago, I went through 2 quarts of brake fluid before I started getting a decent pedal. I had all 4 calipers off and the system went dry. I just simply could not get all the air out. I think in my case, I had air trapped inside both the master cylinder AND my proportioning valve.

When bleeding brakes with the buddy system, have your buddy pump the brake pedal slowly but firmly and hold pressure on the pedal. While they are holding pressure, open the bleeder (on top) and then close the bleeder prior to the pedal being released.

The pedal should have some firmness while holding pressure after pumping the pedal.

I prefer pressure bleeding mine, but when the master cylinder has run dry, I will use the pressure bleeder and crack open one bleeder at a time and slowly depress the brake pedal and release it while still pressure bleeding. That helps force any trapped air out of the master cylinder.

Make sure you have a firm brake pedal prior to driving your car again. There is a reason your pedal goes to the floor. It won't get better by itself.

I am confident that the solution can be found.

As to your carbs, that is another topic.

just my $0.02

the gf and i did exactly this. I mean EXACTLY.

I read and read and read about how to do this. She pushed the pedal and i would crack the valve, it would expel fluid nicely, i would close it and she'd let off the pedal. we went through a whole quart that way. it took a while to get the bubbles to stop and i had her stomp quite a few times to jar air out of the prop valve, which worked nicely.

the venting clearance.... I must not have the right tool or something because the brake pads are at quite an angle and do not push straight at the rotor. i have the tippy point of the pads set to .004 I saw this wierd gynecological tool in the haynes manual they use for that, and I think they want you to remove the pins and stuff that hold the pads on for that or something. It just seems to me that the pads would drag all over the place if you adjusted them without the spring thingies on them and then put them back on, that's kinda what i wanted to avoid. or are brakes supposed to drag? i dont get it.

oh, wouldnt it just figure this piece of shit needs a new MC too... just great. I'll have bought a whole new f*ing car in parts. i hate old cars. I can handle chipping a new car and ricing the hell out of it, and you know why? because i'll actually get to DRIVE a car instead of just OWNING one.

nobody oogles this car, it's old, it's ugly, and of questionable design. i've had ONE oogle and it was a guy in a 993 cabriolet. maybe it was a pity wave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Couple this with my worthless computer,my parents jacking with their internet connection and calling me every 5 minutes for tech support, and i'm feeling like i just want the world to GO AWAY!

I should have figured this would happen. EVERY time i embark on a project with this car, it ends up being a complete nightmare and in the end is WORSE off for the effort. i'm gonna get these brakes working and one of you guys is gonna buy it. i'm throwing in the towel.

[Cupomeat]

Well as it appears that you are giving up on it, I'll only point out one thing and leave it at that.

The pads should be sitting square on the rotors and if there is some lack of parallelism or "because the brake pads are at quite an angle and do not push straight at the rotor" you have something seriously wrong with the install on the brake pads, or similar.

Good thing it did not give you any brake pedal as it seems like a very unsafe situation and better to not have driven it. Any lack of parallelism would result in no ability of the MC to push the wheel calopers enough to do any good.

Check the install against a picture and see what is wrong. You don't need the special tools for pad spreading on the rear of a 914.

Anyway it comes out, I hope you find some peace.

eric

P.S. this is a labor of love and some people don't like that sort of thing. Do what works for you.

[ericread]

Hey Purp;

We've talked before and although I could never think about parting with my teener, it sounds like you're at the point where parting with your 914 might be the best plan of action. You've got the smokin Mini, a fiance, and it's clear the teener stopped being fun a while ago.

However, you're probably going to get a lot more for the teener with the brakes and carbs working correctly, so try to persevere.

Hey Houston members!!! Anybody out there that can lend a hand. Purp's a hellofa nice guy, just a bit stressed right now.

Whatever you decide, don't dissapear on us. You're a valuable member on this board.

Eric Read

[Spoke]

Purple Wrote:
the venting clearance.... I must not have the right tool or something because the brake pads are at quite an angle and do not push straight at the rotor.

It doesn't sound like the rears are adjusted properly. The pad could be at an angle if the venting clearance is huge.

Would you detail how you set the venting clearance? If you did put it in this thread I missed it. There are hex-head adjusters on the outside of the calipers and on the inside.

I usually don't measure the venting clearance. I just tighten until the pad is tight on the rotor then back off slightly until the pads are loose and don't drag on the rotor as the rotor is turned.

[rjames]

have your buddy pump the brake pedal slowly but firmly

the gf and i did exactly this. I mean EXACTLY.

it took a while to get the bubbles to stop and i had her stomp quite a few times to jar air out of the prop valve

Just checking to make sure that by "stomp" you meant that your gf was pushing the brake pedal slowly?

[Lavanaut]

oh, wouldnt it just figure this piece of shit needs a new MC too... just great. I'll have bought a whole new f*ing car in parts. i hate old cars. I can handle chipping a new car and ricing the hell out of it, and you know why? because i'll actually get to DRIVE a car instead of just OWNING one.

nobody oogles this car, it's old, it's ugly, and of questionable design. i've had ONE oogle and it was a guy in a 993 cabriolet. maybe it was a pity wave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Couple this with my worthless computer,my parents jacking with their internet connection and calling me every 5 minutes for tech support, and i'm feeling like i just want the world to GO AWAY!

So yeah, I think you should sell it. It's seems pretty clear from what you're saying that it's not the right car for you. Take part of the proceeds from the sale and buy yourself a new computer. Just like that, 2/3 of your frustration and stress is gone. And hell, I'll help your parents with their internet connection, seriously, PM me.

Life's too short to have the main source of your unhappiness come from what is (for a lot of us) a toy. And it sounds to me like you didn't just quit on it, you've put in a lot of time and effort and find yourself pissed off. So it didn't pan out like you thought! No big deal. Sell the car...move on...absolutely nothing wrong with that.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

edit: I don't mean to undermine the attempts by other members here to help you resolve your problem. This is a place where people are passionate about their cars and this community, so I respect the fact that people are telling you not to give up. To me though, your verbiage speaks pretty strongly to where you're at...

[purple]

The rear pads just dont seem right to me... if you look down at the top of the caliper, they look like this... \||/... with || being the rotor. It seems that the pad spreaders or clips are keeping the top of the pad way back against the body of the caliper while the pistons only push out the other end. I didnt put the pads in, but they looked just like the old pads for how they were installed. The haynes has the rear venting set up with the pad clip thingies out, but this just doesnt make sense to me, the pads would be adjusted correctly for something that wouldnt actually be used, the clips would be there when the car is actually driven. I dont understand how to get the pads parallel to the rotor, they are always at at angle.

99% of the pedal pushing was slow and firm, but the pedal always went to the floor. I'm used to a pretty hard pedal in that car and not but 2 inches at most of travel. I said to stomp occasionally only on the rears as I figured it would knock some air bubbles around if she did. it actually did jar a few bubbles when she did that.

[purple]

oh, wouldnt it just figure this piece of shit needs a new MC too... just great. I'll have bought a whole new f*ing car in parts. i hate old cars. I can handle chipping a new car and ricing the hell out of it, and you know why? because i'll actually get to DRIVE a car instead of just OWNING one.

nobody oogles this car, it's old, it's ugly, and of questionable design. i've had ONE oogle and it was a guy in a 993 cabriolet. maybe it was a pity wave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Couple this with my worthless computer,my parents jacking with their internet connection and calling me every 5 minutes for tech support, and i'm feeling like i just want the world to GO AWAY!

So yeah, I think you should sell it. It's seems pretty clear from what you're saying that it's not the right car for you. Take part of the proceeds from the sale and buy yourself a new computer. Just like that, 2/3 of your frustration and stress is gone. And hell, I'll help your parents with their internet connection, seriously, PM me.

Life's too short to have the main source of your unhappiness come from what is (for a lot of us) a toy. And it sounds to me like you didn't just quit on it, you've put in a lot of time and effort and find yourself pissed off. So it didn't pan out like you thought! No big deal. Sell the car...move on...absolutely nothing wrong with that.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

Thanks man (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I really thought I would be having a lot of fun and do some nice builds, improve this and that and have fun with a car I can take to work on fridays or drive a little on weekend mornings. I cant drive it to work on fridays because the transmission cant take stop & go traffic (lots of grinding, even after adjusting the clutch) The carbs are poorly tuned (i've tried, oh god how i've tried) and just after tip-in they puff and chuff and i've gotten at least 1 small fire out the throats because of this. running up the RPM's is nice though, but the tiny amount of throttle used to keep the car going is just troublesome for it. the weber progressive ran and started better. it started like a champ with that carb, now it's a lot of grinding on the starter and really bad idling until i can touch the throttle (otherwise it'll die)

I replaced all the shocks (surprisingly easy!) the rears were original.

i put on all the engine tin, only one piece of under-tin was installed by the PO, the rest was gone, it overheated because of that.

I put a new alternator in, that was easy too

new ignition(mallory unilite) I cant time it correctly because if i set it to factory spec, it runs like a tractor.

i por-15'ed the gas tank, put in a cb rotary pump, and a glass fuel filter so you can see the fuel in the line, and the tank leaks where i put the new screen in (its annoying to come back from a full tank to a 1/4)

I put in rack spacers because the bump-steer was incredible that was pretty hard, but i got it done.

the only thing as maddening and miffing as this was the engine timing. omfg, figuring out why my car would not run at all was the single most irritating thing i've ever experienced in my life! I was kicking boxes around and throwing shit because i just couldnt figure it out. i looked like a damn silverback gorilla for how stupid i was acting!

I now have a car that CAN run, albeit poorly, and cant stop. I thought I'd be able to do a whole brake system overhaul and be amazed by how awesome these new brakes would be. WRONG. what I got was a mouthful of ash, just like with every other project on this car. I was looking forward to a really powerful engine after these new EXPENSIVE carbs. WRONG. it's still a dog. my 1.6L mini goes like a scaled cat compared to this, and is FAR more stable. I can do god-like turns in the MINI. I feel like i'm driving a 64 lincoln in the porsche by comparison. try to turn to fast and watch it go sideways (which can be fun, i'll give you)

I've put so much blood, sweat and tears into this car and am continually disappointed with the results. a lot of it comes from the fact that i've never done most of this stuff before. sadly, i dont want to do most of it again. it's a punishing car and a hobby I can not financially sustain to make a car worthy of my dreams and it's one that i simply dont have any more emotion for, save annoyance or maybe even hatred.

i want this car to go to a good home, with someone more skilled than me working on it. I dont think I have the skill or the tools to keep this hobby going. it's not fun anymore, it stopped being enjoyable long ago, and has just become more WORK.

once I get this working, I will list it here. it will likely be affordable to most of you since the car was supposed to be a track/ax car for me. its interior is spray on bedliner (po) and has a momo wheel(po) and center console with racing seats and harnesses (po) the engine is a mystery (po) with great induction, ignition, and exhaust(me) that really needs a tuning. and the transmission leaks from the shifter(i have the seal, but not the tools to fix it)

the mini does that(track) job now, and i'm thinking of quitting that too. motorsports is a hobby far too expensive for me, much like most baby boomer hobbies (sailing, golf, corvettes, mistresses, house flipping, etc) I'm living way beyond my means and I need to reel my life in.

I feel like I'm parting with a child or a pet, but it feels like the right decision. I need to pursue more humble hobbies that I can afford. I will also likely be a ghost on here as well.