Chrome bumper deal (triple plate), The Bumper Shop in LA (gauging interest) Options

[narino]

Ok, just got off of the horn with the shop. Here is an option they offered, and I'd like your guys' opinion.

They offered $235 per bumper but that is without Copper. He said that when danny did the $175 deal last year those bumpers did not have copper. I personally get the impression he is just trying to justify the higher price. Anyone who had them done last year know for sure if they did or did not put copper on your bumpers prior to chroming?

For copper bumpers it's still $275 each, they aren't budging.

Minor dents and straightening is included.

$15 additional per hole to plug.

Also I understand without the copper the quality/durability of the chrome is not as good. Would the savings be worth it in the long run?

[edit] crap forgot to ask about black chrome.

[TedK]

It all depends on what you want as a final product.....just to clean up the look or high quality show finish. Description below is from Faith Plating's website:



The following is a brief description of our standard remanufacturing process:

Your bumper is straightened by machine and then by hand.

Your bumper is then ground.

Your bumper is then polished by machine and by hand.

After cleaning, your bumper is electroplated with a nickel strike. This strike tank allows the copper to adhere to the metal.

Your bumper is then electroplated with copper. Copper is a soft metal which when buffed, fills in any noticeable polishing lines.

Your bumper is then buffed by machine and by hand.

After further cleaning, your bumper is electroplated with nickel. The silver color you see on a "chrome plated" bumper is actually nickel plating.

Your bumper is then electroplated with a Nickel Durni solution. The nickel Durni allows the chrome to grip the bumper so as to decrease the chances of peeling and rusting,

Your bumper is then electoplated with chrome. The chrome is a clear sealant.

FINALLY, your bumper is inspected, wrapped and shipped back to you!

Order Now

Show Chrome requires the same remanufacturing process as our standard repairs with the follow additions:
Show cars are electroplated with copper several times in order to reduce or eliminate noticeable polishing lines and blemishes.

Many older cars, even well maintained cars, develop rust spots that create pits in the metal itself.

Often these metal pits must be filled in by welding silver into the inclusions

Many small polishing lines which are insignificant on a truck or standard vehicle are examined more closely on cars in show.

Many older cars have delicate thin parts, including die cast pot metal.

Many older cars have cracks in the metal requiring show cars to have parts welded.

As should be expected, show chrome prices are higher than our list prices.


I can assure you these guys are more expensive, but top notch work is the result......its all about what you are after.

[TravisNeff]

isn't the copper plating process a very important part of the chroming (like a primer of sorts)? I know that the copper helps fill scratches and whatnot.

[LvSteveH]

There is no industry standard for "triple plating". It can mean two layers of nickel and one layer of chrome or copper/nickel/chrome. Two layers of nickel are required for proper corrosion protection, so technically that's more important than copper.

High quality chrome involves using copper to fill minor imperfections prior to applying the nickel or chrome. Apparently it's debatable whether the copper adds corrosion protection. The two layers of nickel provide a sacrificial anode to help prevent rust which is very important for exposure.

I'm sure with very good prep an excellent job could be done without copper, but it's probably easier to level the imperfections with copper than having to work the blemishes out of raw steel.

[Heeltoe914]

Those bumpers look nice...would you say they are show quality? If you guys get this together I might have 3 to do.

Thanks
Ted K

Yes I would.

[Heeltoe914]

I spent a couple of hours there when I had mine done and the people running the place seemed pretty nice.

I'm thinking that if you can get a "SOLID" commitment of say 10 or more bumpers and physically go in and talk to the manager, you can probably get the price lowered anywhere from 25 to 50 bucks a unit.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Simple shop but nice to work with. Like any Company now I think thay just wont to pay the rent. 10 or more will make a nice payday.

[TravisNeff]

For your reading pleasure. Now if they are to skip the copper plating, are they going to do a nickel dip twice?

Decorative Chrome Plating

Decorative chrome plating is sometimes called nickel-chrome plating because it always involves electroplating nickel onto the object before plating the chrome (it sometimes also involves electroplating copper onto the object before the nickel, too). The nickel plating provides the smoothness, much of the corrosion resistance, and most of the reflectivity. The chrome plating is exceptionally thin, measured in millionths of an inch rather than in thousandths.

When you look at a decorative chromium plated surface, such as a chrome plated wheel or truck bumper, most of what you are seeing is actually the effects of the nickel plating. The chrome adds a bluish cast (compared to the somewhat yellowish cast of nickel), protects the nickel against tarnish, minimizes scratching, and symbiotically contributes to corrosion resistance. But the point is, without the brilliant leveled nickel undercoating, you would not have a reflective, decorative surface.

By the way, there is no such thing as "decrotif chrome plating". That is just a misspelling of 'decorative'.



Buzzwords: "Show chrome", "Triple Chrome Plating", "Double Nickel-Chrome"

"Show chrome" probably means chrome that is good enough to be on a winning entry in a car show. Although most OEMs rely on the "self-levelling" property of nickel plating to give sufficient reflectivity to roughly polished steel, chrome-lovers believe that the key to "show chrome" is to copper plate the item first and then buff the copper to a full lustre before starting the nickel plating.

Whether you start with bare steel or buffed copper, at least two layers of plating follow -- a layer of nickel and a layer of chrome. But high quality plating requires a minimum of two layers of nickel.

Salespeople are always looking for advantage, and they will use any good-sounding terms they can get away with! There are no laws that define what triple chrome plating actually means, so salespeople will be prone to call their service "triple chrome plating" if there are a total of 3 layers of any kind of plating, or "quadruple chrome plating" if there are 4. So those terms mean little.

The most important issue for durable chrome plating for outdoor exposure such as on a vehicle is that it MUST have at least two layers of nickel plating before the chrome: namely semi-bright nickel followed by bright nickel. The reason for this involves galvanic corrosion issues. The bright nickel is anodic to the semi-bright nickel, and sacrificially protects it, spreading the corrosion forces laterally instead of allowing them to penetrate through to the steel. OEMs demand very close control of this factor, and there is a test (the Chrysler developed STEP test) which large shops run daily to insure the right potentials. Careful control of this issue is probably the principal reason that today's chromium plating greatly outlasts the chrome plating of earlier times.

Experts argue whether copper plating provides any additional corrosion resistance at all, but with or without copper plating, chrome on top of a single layer of nickel will not hold up to the severe exposure of a vehicle! Industry professionals call the two layers of nickel "duplex nickel plating", and that would be a much better term to use than "triple chrome" and such.

Chrome plating is hardly a matter of dipping an article into a tank, it is a long involved process that often starts with tedious polishing and buffing, then cleaning and acid dipping, zincating (if the part is aluminum), and copper plating. For top reflectivity "Show Chrome", this will be followed by buffing of the copper for perfect smoothness, cleaning and acid dipping again, and plating more copper, then two or three different types of nickel plating, all before the chrome plating is done. Rinsing is required between every step.



Restoration Work

When an item needs "rechroming", understand what is really involved: stripping the chrome, stripping the nickel (and the copper if applicable), then polishing out all of the scratches and blemishes (they can't be plated over and any scratches will show after plating), then plating with copper and "mush buffing" to squash copper into any tiny pits, then starting the whole process described above.

Unfortunately, simply replating an old piece may cost several times what a replacement would cost. It's the old story of labor cost. The new item requires far less prep work, and an operator or machine can handle dozens of identical parts at the same time whereas a mix of old parts cannot be processed simultaneously, but must be processed one item at a time. If a plater has to spend a whole day on your parts, don't expect it to cost less than what a plumber or mechanic would charge you for a day of their time.



Peeling chrome?

If your chrome plating is peeling, this is virtually always a manufacturing defect due to insufficient adhesion of the plating to the substrate. Although exposure conditions can certainly harm chrome, they don't make it peel. It can be very difficult for the plating shop to get good adhesion on some things (specifically on aluminum wheels) because they are not pure aluminum, but if they can't do it they shouldn't sell it. If your parts have peeling, you should complain and you should not be deterred by nonsense about chemicals in your garage, how frequently you wash the wheels, etc. We'll say it again, peeling chrome is virtually always a manufacturing defect.

[Wilhelm]

I believe you can put me down for 4 bumpers.

[Heeltoe914]

Ok, just got off of the horn with the shop. Here is an option they offered, and I'd like your guys' opinion.

They offered $235 per bumper but that is without Copper. He said that when danny did the $175 deal last year those bumpers did not have copper. I personally get the impression he is just trying to justify the higher price. Anyone who had them done last year know for sure if they did or did not put copper on your bumpers prior to chroming?

For copper bumpers it's still $275 each, they aren't budging.

Minor dents and straightening is included.


$15 additional per hole to plug.

Also I understand without the copper the quality/durability of the chrome is not as good. Would the savings be worth it in the long run?

[edit] crap forgot to ask about black chrome.

Sorry for Three in a row here but (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I think that he is feeding you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) I had 4 done last year under Dannys hands and evrything was included. This shop is not run in a way where thay could track info like copper no copper, fill no fill add 25 bucks. Its a crome bumber sweet shop IMHO. THAT DOSE GREAT WORK. as you a;ready said he is maybe just trying to justify the price. Like I said last year it was all included,
But maybe new owner and new rules???


275 is still a good price.

[biosurfer1]

You might try to find out how many people for sure will go through and then approach for a price. Just go in and say I have X ready to go, what's the best price you can do for me. I wonder if he is sticking to the price because he is thinking the worst at only 10, if you have 20 confirmed, he might be willing to come down a bit.

[r_towle]

I would not do it without the copper phase.
It is done as many times as needed to build up the surface and make it smooth.
Without the copper, it would be wavy at best or it could be worse.
Copper is bondo. Nickle is to give the chrome something to stick to...chrome wont stick to copper.
Rich

[narino]

... if you have 20 confirmed, he might be willing to come down a bit.

I told him we had 10 for sure an probably an additional 5 to 10. He then said he's got an order in from Long Beach for 25 bumpers at $325 ea, so he can't go lower. I'm sure it's BS, and he doesn't want to lose more profit. (can't blame the guy it's a business).

Leamon - no worries about the several posts, the information is much appreciated!

I'm pretty much sold on this shop and will go in at the $275 price so i can have it done right. The $30 saving for me is not justified if I have to redo them again in 10 years. ( I learned to drive in this car, she's not leaving the family (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

When I go in to drop off my bumpers next week I'll talk to the manager directly and see if I can work him down some more. I have a feeling they aren't going to move, but I'll give it a shot none the less. I'll also make sure he knows of the club's name so anyone who calls can get the prices offered.

thanks for everyone's input! I can't wait to get her back on the road!

P.S. anyone have a garage and mechanical knowledge to lend/rent so i can put the engine back in? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[Allan]

One thing to remember guys is that when Danny set up the deal the last time he had a commitment of dozens and ended up with maybe 12 to 14 units.

If you can assure a certain quantity you will have more bargaining power.

And I agree that $275.00 is still a good price.

[Allan]

P.S. anyone have a garage and mechanical knowledge to lend/rent so i can put the engine back in? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

If you can trailer the car I have access to our fleet bay, tools, and lift... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[narino]

If you can trailer the car I have access to our fleet bay, tools, and lift... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Allan - Thanks again for the offer to help out once more.

Here is what i was also hoping to do when time came to put the engine back in.

Install Chris' St steel fuel lines.
Run new brake lines in tunnel
Clean and repack CVs.

Am I smoking crack thinking it could be done in a day?

[Bartlett 914]

I would not do it without the copper phase.
It is done as many times as needed to build up the surface and make it smooth.
Without the copper, it would be wavy at best or it could be worse.
Copper is bondo. Nickle is to give the chrome something to stick to...chrome wont stick to copper.
Rich

I work in the printing industry and we use copper plated cylinders for printing. Chrome does stick to copper. The problem is sticking copper to steel. There is more than1 type of copper. Acid, cyanide and alkaline plating solutions are used. Cyanide and Alkaline does stick to steel. Cyanide is pretty much out unless grandfathered. Most engravers use alkaline copper on steel first or they will use nickel. The copper is then plated oversize and polished to size. After engraving. a very thin layer of hard Chrome is plated. The Nickel and Chrome are very thin. Copper is several thousandths thick. Copper is very easily polished.

[914dave]

Jorge,
I'm interested in having both mine done. $550 is the lowest I've gotten on the east coast. That's for one bumper. PM me with details if you need to. Cars on the lift for a six conversion, might as well have shiny bumpers
Dave

[Dr Evil]

I talked to my buddy and he is on board. I need to see how many he has (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[narino]

After I talk to them early next week I'll post the info.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[KaptKaos]

[edit] crap forgot to ask about black chrome.

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