300º OIL TEMP, What Going On Options

[Smitty911]

Well I talked to RON (SLITS) and he was kind enough to have me over to check out the 914.

Filled up the tank with 89 octane $4.03 a gallon, put in some STP Fuel Injection Cleaner and of course washed her in the Coin Op, Couldn't see introducing a new 914 all dirty.

On the way out to Riverside outside temp 65-70º F, 65 MPH, Oile Pressure 65, and OIL Temp started and stayed around 200º, half way there she ran up to 250º. Ok odd but I havn't owned it that long. Stop for Breakfast and to let her cool down.

Half an hour later start her up Oil around 180º and back on the 91 FWY. By time I get there the oil temp was back to 250º+.

Introduced myself and Ron started poking around a little. Set the Fuel Pressure, was low at 26 PSI reset to 29.4 PSI. Adjusted the timing. He said it was as good as it was gonna get.

Jim was there working on a 3.0 Liter. Ron than took me for a ride in a 2.7 Liter.

OH MY GOSH,,,,,,,,, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

I spoke to Ron about the OIL Temp, he checked the gauge against a Thermal couple, Gauge reads correctly.

Say good bye and head back home, By Green River Drive I had to pull off cause the OIL TEMP was up to 300º. It had been around 220ish and when I looked down again, it was at the 300º mark. Stopped to let it cool.

Drive home and it was around 250º the rest of the way home. Temps stayed high if I was doing 65, 70, 75, 80 MPH. I would push in the clutch and coast and that would sometimes bring it down.

Any Ideas or where to start. FYI Fresh Oil change with filter. Oil cooler blocked??? Oil Cooler fins blocked??? Heck I don't know.

Any suggestions??

EDIT - I forgot to add that it is running rich. Half tank for the round trip (70 miles maybe)

Smitty

[ConeDodger]

Was Toast there? That gets your oil boiling... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

It should be at least 212 to get the water boiled off. I would be more interested in your cylinder head temps.

Your rich condition might have been taken care of with the fuel pressure adjustment. Without proper pressure you sometimes don't get a good spray pattern. Once you aren't rich it can run hotter.

You would be shocked at how clogged up that oil cooler can get with leaks and such.

[Smitty911]

Was Toast there? That gets your oil boiling... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

It should be at least 212 to get the water boiled off. I would be more interested in your cylinder head temps.

Your rich condition might have been taken care of with the fuel pressure adjustment. Without proper pressure you sometimes don't get a good spray pattern. Once you aren't rich it can run hotter.

You would be shocked at how clogged up that oil cooler can get with leaks and such.

ConeDodger,

Thanks for getting back to me. I can pull the cooler off without pulling the motor.

Cylinder Head Temps, NO Clue on how hot they were, need to buy a gauge.

Seems like if the RICH condition is fixed than the Problem just Moved, as it is running hotter. So how do we cool this thing down?

Thanks

Smitty

[Ferg]

Check you cooling/warm up flaps, open or closed... make sure they move freely and not binding, check the thermostat if you have one, if it's failed, unhook the wire and let them spring open.

If that's not it, start pulling tin and look for blockages over the oil cooler ect. Thats way to hot to drive around on. I would also change the oil again.

Ferg

[Smitty911]

Ferg,

Thanks for the info. The Flaps well, they flap, the thermostat thing is missing. Looks like I'll have to pull the tin.

Once I removed the Tins is it a good idea to washout the oil cooler? Of course I will have to replace the seals.

I figured I distroyed the Oil on the way home so that will be changed this weekend after my first Valve Adjustment.

Smitty

[toon1]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) .... Did you have a RICH condition??

26psi. is LOW F.P.

bumping the F.P. to 29.4 RAISES the fuel input by ~30cc/min.

sounds to me like you where LEAN.

A head temp. gauge is SOOOOOOO valuble. Head temps fluccuate faster, much faster, than oil temps. you will see a 30* fluccuation in head temp.s before you will see a 10* fluccuation in oil temps. It is important to have both.

While driving yesterday, the weather was cool and my engine Head temps where 345-350ish. While climbing a long, not very steep hill, the head temps shot up to 370*.

If the engine was running on the warm side, and I did'nt know it, 370* could turn into 400*, that's bad.

When was the last time you had the oil cooler out of the car?

[Smitty911]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) .... Did you have a RICH condition??

26psi. is LOW F.P.

bumping the F.P. to 29.4 RAISES the fuel input by ~30cc/min.

sounds to me like you where LEAN.

A head temp. gauge is SOOOOOOO valuble. Head temps fluccuate faster, much faster, than oil temps. you will see a 30* fluccuation in head temp.s before you will see a 10* fluccuation in oil temps. It is important to have both.

While driving yesterday, the weather was cool and my engine Head temps where 345-350ish. While climbing a long, not very steep hill, the head temps shot up to 370*.

If the engine was running on the warm side, and I did'nt know it, 370* could turn into 400*, that's bad.

When was the last time you had the oil cooler out of the car?

I just ordered the CHT from Aircraft Supply with the 15' lead and 14mm probe. I should have that in this weekend.

It is running rich still, very rich.

Hell I just bought the thing so I've never had it out. That will be this weekend also.

Thanks Toon1

[Elliot Cannon]

I don't think a 300 degree oil temp is result of high cyl. head temps. Somethings wrong with oil circulation, cooling, airflow etc. If your cyl. head temps. were really high, I think you would have other problems as well. Then again...what the hell do I know? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Just .02 worth.

[SLITS]

Between all the BSin' and what not I did not address your oil cooler.

I usually use the lift to get the car in the air and then wash down the oil cooler from the bottom with brake cleaner (couple of cans) then blow high pressure shop air back up thru the oil cooler ... couple of cars dropped oil temp radically.

Didn't have the vacuum pump to check your MPS. You need to do that also.

I see I fixed it well enough for the oil temps to climb anyway .... I should start calling myself Clayton.

[Smitty911]

Between all the BSin' and what not I did not address your oil cooler.

I usually use the lift to get the car in the air and then wash down the oil cooler from the bottom with brake cleaner (couple of cans) then blow high pressure shop air back up thru the oil cooler ... couple of cars dropped oil temp radically.

Didn't have the vacuum pump to check your MPS. You need to do that also.

I see I fixed it well enough for the oil temps to climb anyway .... I should start calling myself Clayton.

SLITS,

Thanks you almost did what you said. Take a running car and turn it into a Non-running car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Borrowed a Vacume Gauge and will be testing that out here in a minute or two.

A couple of cans of Brake Cleaner, is it easier to just pull off the tin?

Smitty

[toon1]

I don't think a 300 degree oil temp is result of high cyl. head temps. Somethings wrong with oil circulation, cooling, airflow etc. If your cyl. head temps. were really high, I think you would have other problems as well. Then again...what the hell do I know? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Just .02 worth.

I agree, there is somthing wrong with either circulation or cooling of the oil. But he stated he had no clue what the HT's where. That is a important measurment also.

If the oil is running that hot I would bet the HT's are hot also.

[BarberDave]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

You can try Smitty's idea, try it if it works O.K. The air flaps the defalt position is

wide open. If this was my car,i would check for a MAJOR lean condition. Also i

would pull engine and clean engine and cooler right. If this car sat for any

amount of time,there is no telling what built a nest or nests under there.

Just my 2 cents ,please keep us posted. Dave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

[echocanyons]

I would (while the engine is off) reach my hand to back of the fan and feel if there are a significant amount of broken fan blades, I had two or three blades broken and the temp chage was very noticable especially under loads like an incline.

[dbgriffith75]

if it's failed, unhook the wire and let them spring open.

the thermostat thing is missing.

As some of us may recall, this is not a good thing. It will be a bitch, but find a thermostat ASAP, and check out this link for reasons WHY-

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...g+my+thermostat

(Read the link first.) Now, I do have an old thermostat that I attempted this on, and I did get the cap sealed back up, but there was the tiniest of leaks in the bellows that prevented it from holding vaccuum. If you want I will send the 'stat to you for only the cost of shipping if you want to try to fix the leak in the bellows. But I'd advise you to try and find another one first.

I also agree that there's something not right w/ oil circulation. Definitely check the oil cooler to see if the fins are plugged up w/ dirt or nests.

And I'm just throwing this out there as I don't know for sure, but would a faulty oil pressure relief valve affect oil temp? Seems to me that if the pressure is not being relieved properly, that could cause the temp to rise as we all know that pressure creates heat; and if the valve isn't working properly, it could be part of the reason your oil temp is so high.

Just a thought....

[rhodyguy]

you don't have to remove one piece of tin to do as ron suggested. protect yourself and spray cleaner from under the car if no lift is avail. i take rain gear, brake cleaner, and a floor jack to clean the whole bottom prior to major work at the spray and wash.

[Smitty911]

Is it me or does Work get in the way of things you need to get done.

So after 5 hours shopping with the wife (New Fountain, plants, and pots) I finally had a chance to play with the car.

I recieved the CHT from Aircraft supply. Got some Simple Green type cleaner and went after the top side of the motor. Got that mostly clean so you can at least identify whats what.

Got up under the Passenger side to find the oil cooler. I found it but with a Flashlight would have been much quicker. Get from under car, find Maglight, get back under car. I should mention that fitting under a 914 is not the most comfortable position.

Inspected the Oil Cooler, no obvious blockage, so old oil, dirt, etc, nothing major.

Two cans of Brake Cleaner later it looked much better. Go for Drive. 91 FWY, 70 MPH, Temp aroun 220ºF. Figure it's good, get off, turn around and head home. Nope Temp started BOUNCING from 220º - 250º, while I watched it, it bounced from the 220 - 250 up to 300 and beyond!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pull over pop hood and pull dipstick, hot but not 300+ degrees. Waited like 5 minutes, started it and the temp was back down to 220º????????????????

Options?

1. Pull motor, Tear it down, look for issue, bolt back and drive.
2. Pull motor, Wait until funds for Raby Kit?
3. Drive it till it blows.

I'm leaning on #1, right now as I start a new job in two weeks and $$$ is gonna be tight for a month or two.

I know if I pull the motor it will cost some money just to replace the needed items anyway.

Ideas??????????

Thanks

Smitty

[SLITS]

If it's bouncing around, I'll put my bets on the sender or wiring.

Wire runs along engine bar from taco plate, up thru tin to a connector on the main harness.

[PeeGreen 914]

Just curious who you bought the car from?

Did you check the Fan? does it have all the fins?

[Smitty911]

Slits,

Thanks, I'll add that to my list. The Tach still needs to be tracked down as to why it kills the car if it's plugged in.

Phoenix 914-6GT,

I bought it from the shop that had worked on it for the last 6 years. The PO traded it for a BMW, cause it would not run. Could have been as simple as that Silly Tach Wire. HAHA, opps jokes now on me.

The Fan has a plastic mesh cover on it. I don't believe there are any broken fins, this is from attempting to time it and what not.

Things to check after Church.

Smitty

[toon1]

Try another gauge, if that doesn't do it, go for pulling the motor and cleaning everything.