OT, a little something for you liberals Options

[airsix]

Sorry I started this. It was intended as humor, however sick. My apologies to anyone I have offended, but call us Californians f$#@n democrats one more time and you're crossing a line.

And can we show better looking boobs?

I'll also add that I'm not nearly as riled up as I sound. No offense intended.

-Ben M.

[mikester]

That should be a campaign slogan "more boobs in '04!"

Anyway, no offence here - except for being called a democrat. Which I am not.

Regardless - I must chime in again because I love to stir the pot.

Quoted from General Wesley Clarke's website:

"From 1997 to May 2000, General Clark served as Supreme Allied Commander, Europe. During this assignment, General Clark engaged in high-level diplomacy to lead a multinational force in the 1999 Kosovo Conflict. Through his direction, NATO and the United States were able to halt ethnic cleansing in Kosovo and return 1.5 million ethnic Albanians to their homes. This was accomplished without the loss of a single American life."

Not a single American life lost in a truly multinational and supported operation.



As much as I admire and respect the men and women in our armed forces as a whole and individually - I would not ask them to do something that I would not or could not do myself. They have taken as their duty to protect us and it is our duty to protect them from poor decisions fating them to fight for a cause that is unclear. At the moment now, and the moment before we started this fight - I would not have asked these men and women to fight this fight as I would not have done it myself.

I think I have to stop now.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) <---I love this one.

[william harris]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif) My sincere apologies to the board members from the great state of California. Didn't mean to offend anyone and maybe we just think everyone is a liberal democrat because of the state has that reputation. Hell, you guys did elect the Governator and maybe Arnold can turn things around there. What I hate about government - the politicians always think they know how to spend my money better than I do. Anyhow, once upon a time all us Southerner's were Yellow Dog Democrats - that means we would vote for a yellow dog before we would vote for a republican. Well, those days are gone.

[seanery]

As long as the tone stays up, I'll leave this open, otherwise I'm gonna lock the thread.

Politics and religion are tough with thousands of folks from all over the world.
Remember the cars, that's why we're here.
Keep the tone civil please.

thanks.

[914werke]

That should be a campaign slogan "more boobs in '04!"

How about "More head and fewer Dead" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[fiid]

BTW, I am not riled up either. I think the ideas and viewpoint exchange on here is really great and I have learned a lot from it. I mean no offense.

This means no proof that you what to believe?

There is proof, but you care not to believe it. Admit it.

I actually wasn't aware of anything but allegations - what are are
you referring to?

BTW, I don't think that England is exactly the bee's knees either - Tony Blair is a spineless gimp and the country has some real issues to deal with.

[william harris]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) It's the end of the world as we know it.

[Howard]

Keep the tone civil please.

Then what can we talk about ?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Attn: Brits.

1. Tony Blair is not a spineless twit. He heads our very important colony, so we Americans love him.

2. After visiting your museums, I believe you should return some of the plunder you have 'impounded for safekeeping' to the rightful owners before you criticize another country's imperial goals. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Elgin Marbles??

3. Mind the gap!

[SirAndy]

So that Bush's oil buddies can get rich.

finally! someone who is not afraid of telling the truth ...

but the real question is:
why does it take someone from half around the globe to show you guys what's really going on in your country?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Andy

[GWN7]

I hope that history will not repeat itself in the case of Iraq. The last time the US occupied a country to the extent that they are over there (rebuilding inferstructure/economy) was Japan and the US forces were there for over 7 years.

[Aaron Cox]

not to mention that the US's largest base is on japan! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[need4speed]

. . .  Figure 2/3 of the club are democrats (based in California, right?)  . . ..

Heh, haven't looked at a county-by-county map of party affiliation in California, have you?

Most of California (land-mass-wise) is Republican. Only small areas centering around LA and SF are Democrat.

Personally, my take on the matter is this:

Democrats want to ban boobies because it's not Politically Correct, and offends and opresses women. (violates the 1st Amendment, because Boobies Want To Be Free!)
Republicans want to ban boobies, because every time you mastrubate, God kills a kitten. (violates the 1st Amendment, because not all Americans want to belong to the same faction of Christianity)

When boobies are outlawed, only outlaws will have boobies.

Democrats want to ban 914's because they pollute and people who don't buy new cars don't keep auto workers employed in their cushy union jobs.
Republicans want to ban 914's because Porsche doesn't donate large sums to their campaigns, nor do they build tanks, bombs, or jets.

When 914's are outlawed, only outlaws will have 914's.

So basically, anyone who supports EITHER party is an unAmerican evil b&stard. Any lawmaker who supports legistlation from either side has LIED UNDER OATH - because when they were sworn into office, they swore to uphold the Constitution. Treasonous bastards need to be lined up and shot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fighting19.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

There.
I said it.
I'll see all you other Bush bashers in Cuba. We should get together and throw a party or something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif)

[mikester]

I'm not that riled up either, I think and am trying to keep my comments as healthy as possible.

Japan and Germany tried to take over the planet - we occupied them for a much clearer reason. It was them or us, that was a much different and harder fight. Both contries have been shaped in very different ways since WW2.

I don't think I have any more to say that would be productive - I don't think our culture and democracy will fit very easily into theirs. Freedom didn't come to us in a year - it took a few hundred - we shouldn't rush them. They already have the right idea - they are now speaking for themselves. It is unfortunate that they aren't using their new found voice to say "thank you" to us...but that's life.

Bah humbug.

[need4speed]

Despite all that other stuff I said - I have read that Saddam letter before, and I think it's damn funny. If there's a silver lining to this whole Iraq mess, it's that Saddam is now measuring the windows for curtains in the cell next to Manuel Noriega's. But that's making lemonade out of some pretty skanky rotten lemons.

I would MUCH rather those resources have gone to setting up Osama bin Laden in a cell next to Ramsi Yousef's. After all. Osama did 9/11. Not Saddam. We've got to focus here and remember that indisputible fact. Every time I complain about this - a Bush supporter responds with; "you're just bashing Bush. You libs don't have any plan or idea of your own." (I'm not a lib, and here's my plan):
150,000 troops in Afghanistan would have made for a far more effective campaign. Afghanistan might have made a more stable transition to it's current government (which is *NOT* a democracy), might have cut back on the record opium exports they've had in the past 2 years, and might have prevented the escape of most of the top Al Qaeda figures we're after. Instead of 150,000 troops in Iraq, sending them to Afghanistan would have gone a long way towards not only putting pressure on Iran, but also Pakistan. Pakistan supports terror (in Kashmir), allows slavery, extrajudicial killings, they have WMD, they're sheltering bin Laden, they attack their neighbors, the ISI are the ones who essentially set up the Taliban in the first place, and they sold nuclear weapons technology to Iran, North Korea, Libya, and Lord knows whom else. Mushtarraf may say he's on our side - but his leadership isn't much more relevant than Arafat's. He does not control the radicals, and the control of these radicals is absolutely crucial to the War on Terror. I'm not saying we need to invade Pakistan, (though apparently, the Pentagon has a plan for that). But it seems like a little more pressure over there might just pop that zit.

Hussein was contained. Economically, and militarily. The facts that he let the inspectors back in, and that he began destroying his stockpile of Al Samoud missiles showed that he was willing to be more cooperative. Like I said before - I'm really glad Hussein is in jail, and that the Iraqi's have a shot at freedom now (remains to be seen whether they'll end up with an Afghanistan-like installed corporate dictatorship), and I'm proud and thankful that our military lost so few troops doing it. Again..... would have been nice if we could have used the Powell Doctrine, and struck with more force, we probably would have loss less troops, and might have avoided the embarrassing anarchy and looting that followed the invasion, and might have prevented some key figures from escaping the country (hint: when you're going into a house to bust a criminal, bring enough cops to cover the back door). Seems as if they only sent enough troops to secure the oil fields. Pragmatic, I'm sure. But it doesn't look good at all.

[Joe Ricard]

More Bush AND More boobies. Now how can you say no to that????? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/boldblue.gif)

Oh and a 914 in every garage. Vote for me!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) Hell at least I am honest (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif)

[Howard]

Porsche doesn't donate large sums to their campaigns, nor do they build tanks, bombs, or jets

Well, not any more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Great comments. Anyone read Michener's 'Caravans'? Afghanistan became a 'country' because of international edict, not popular vote. It's citizens have little in common and speak different languages. We call it a country; they don't.

God Bless America! It's one of the few places where the ethnic diversity no longer leads to the anarchy seen in Bosnia or Afghanistan. We piss and moan, make racial and political slurs, but have not come to blows since that unpleasantness at the Mason/Dixon line.

I don't believe we should police the rest of the world to keep them from annihilating themselves with ethnic cleansing. With 20/20 hindsight we should have stopped Hitler, but he was only killing his own Jews, so we did not. And if Tojo raped Nanking, what's a few million Chinese one way or the other. We only got involved in those little disagreements when they became a threat to our way of life, and that is probably correct.

But we're there now, so what are the choices?

1. We abandon Iraq and let them fight it out among themselves. The losses would be substantial, but hey, they're only Iraqis. Then we can buy cheap oil from whoever wins.

2. We stay there and help them form a multi ethnic government that values truth, justice and the American way. As soon as they are on their feet and ready to trade oil for Big Mac's we can leave. If you like that, let me show you a rust free 914 and some desert property.

3. We encourage them to become separate countries. Kurds are skins, Sunni's are shirts. Go to your areas and stay there. Give one side all the oil, the other all the water and let them make a deal.

But not this. The quickest way to unite a diverse group is to have them face a powerful threat fom the outside. They're so pissed at us they will try to evict us ASAP and get back to their own fight. And that's understandable. Had a European power attacked the US on 2/1/1862, the civil war would have ended 2/2/1862.

Dumber and dumber. We united Vietnam and the Soviets helped Afghanistan (and their various aquisitions at the end of WWII). Germany is one country again. If Mars first attack lands their little aliens in North Korea, we'll be helping to build their nuclear arsenal. Someone tell Washington how this works; I can't seem to get through.

Think we need a club meeting and coast drive to continue this bash. Meet at Jocko's to make sure need4speed attends. That man does have a way with words!

[Aaron Cox]

I'm not that riled up either, I think and am trying to keep my comments as healthy as possible.

Japan and Germany tried to take over the planet - we occupied them for a much clearer reason. It was them or us, that was a much different and harder fight. Both contries have been shaped in very different ways since WW2.

I don't think I have any more to say that would be productive - I don't think our culture and democracy will fit very easily into theirs. Freedom didn't come to us in a year - it took a few hundred - we shouldn't rush them. They already have the right idea - they are now speaking for themselves. It is unfortunate that they aren't using their new found voice to say "thank you" to us...but that's life.

Bah humbug.

hmmm....

why did we enter world war I (WWI)? we entered to stop unrestricted submarine warfare, and we ended up going in on that cause and changing to something else....that made a difference!

kinda like IRAQ, we went to find WMD (thats anothre subject), we didnt, so at least we got rid of an evil dictator.

since we cant go back in time and change the outcome of the war/not enter the war, whats the point in bitching bout it? doesnt help anything does it? lez just try to make the best of it.....

and the UN thought there were WMD in Iraq. The weapons inspectors thought there were. it wasnt just the republicans! democrats were sold on the war to by BAD INTELLIGENCE!

[mikester]

True True, this war was not a unilateral decision by Bush - a LOT of Dems on the hill were and still are behind him. In fact - I am definitely FOR removing Saddam. I just think the way we have done this has damaged our relationship with the rest of the world. We're being bullies I think, just because we don't get our way - we take our ball and go home. Then do our own thing; what is good about that?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

[maf914]

Great comments. Anyone read Michener's 'Caravans'?

Yep, read it last summer.

Mike