 cant get a brake, pedal that is |
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| 6freak |
 Aug 27 2008, 11:32 PM
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#1
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MR.C  Group: Members Posts: 4,740 Joined: 19-March 08 From: Tacoma WA Member No.: 8,829 Region Association: Pacific Northwest  |
Ok heres my deal ! ive read tons on this stuff and i thought i was doing it correct but maybe not so im ask`n for help .....new calipers,new pads, new fluid,power bled first then manuel multipal times.and still only have half a pedal still.No sign of air in the lines (bubbles)and flushed until all the little bits of dirt or(dirty fluid) whatever it was flowing through the clear hose on the bleeder was gone. Master cyclinder is only ten years old (could B the culprit)?? P-valve seems to be ok! when i pump the pedal i think i can hear it working ? what else could it be in that general area that sound like a spring do`n its thing..the car will stop and the wheels will almost lockup ....O yah i set the venting clearane at 0,008 thats what the book said to do both inside and out ..I was told 0.004 was what it should have been! could this be the issue..will 0.004 make that much defferants and if so will i have to start the bleed process all over again ..I think i will anyway ...so thats my story .....I didnt put any pepperoni grease on it Mr towle ! but if you think it will help!! LMAO (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) Thanks everyone
Mike Crandall |
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| championgt1 |
Aug 27 2008, 11:40 PM
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#2
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Don't embarrass me Filmore! Group: Members Posts: 2,680 Joined: 3-January 07 From: Tacoma, Washington Member No.: 7,420 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
That sucks. My 924 had a similar problem that ended up being the master cylinder itself. Don't know if that is your problem or not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Keep at it you will figure it out. |
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| PeeGreen 914 |
Aug 27 2008, 11:52 PM
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#3
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Just when you think you're done...wait, there is more..lol Group: Members Posts: 10,219 Joined: 21-September 06 From: Seattle, WA... actually Everett Member No.: 6,884 Region Association: Pacific Northwest 
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QUOTE(championgt1 @ Aug 27 2008, 10:40 PM)  That sucks. My 924 had a similar problem that ended up being the master cylinder itself. Don't know if that is your problem or not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Keep at it you will figure it out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I am thinking it could be the MC Mike. You can call Tim tomorrow and have a new one ready for you in the PM tomorrow if you need one. I know you don't want to do more but you got to make it work. If you need my help let me know. |
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| roadster fan |
Aug 28 2008, 01:17 AM
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#4
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Project Frankenstein !!!!!!!! Group: Members Posts: 1,009 Joined: 24-November 05 From: Aptos, CA Member No.: 5,184 Region Association: Northern California |
yes .004 will make a difference.
Did you have issues with the system before the replacement parts? Jim |
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| 6freak |
Aug 28 2008, 08:42 AM
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#5
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MR.C Group: Members Posts: 4,740 Joined: 19-March 08 From: Tacoma WA Member No.: 8,829 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(roadster fan @ Aug 27 2008, 11:17 PM) yes .004 will make a difference. Did you have issues with the system before the replacement parts? Jim sorta thats why i did all this ...kindof a mushy pedal..just like now Ok thats any easy fix ..will it cause me to have just half a break pedal? and not have a lock up of the brakes?i did a hard stop from hi speed and stood on the pedal and it stops strait and true and the tires are howling but no lock up..maybe im just expecting to much??? I will call Tim also and get hes opinion thanks guys |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
Aug 28 2008, 09:41 AM
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#6
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
If you allowed the pedal to bottom out during the bleeding process, you may have damaged the master cylinder. And, yes, you need to reset the venting clearance to the proper clearance. The Cap'n
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| 6freak |
Aug 28 2008, 09:55 AM
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#7
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MR.C Group: Members Posts: 4,740 Joined: 19-March 08 From: Tacoma WA Member No.: 8,829 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Aug 28 2008, 07:41 AM) If you allowed the pedal to bottom out during the bleeding process, you may have damaged the master cylinder. And, yes, you need to reset the venting clearance to the proper clearance. The Cap'n I dont think so but maybe ..so is there a way to check and see if its ok with out removeing it from the car and break`n all the lines loose ..thanks Cap`n |
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| r_towle |
Aug 28 2008, 09:58 AM
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#8
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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set the venting to correctly its important.
the manual is wrong and has been confirmed. It will make a huge difference and give you a very low pedal. Rich |
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| 6freak |
Aug 28 2008, 10:10 AM
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#9
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MR.C Group: Members Posts: 4,740 Joined: 19-March 08 From: Tacoma WA Member No.: 8,829 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(r_towle @ Aug 28 2008, 07:58 AM) set the venting to correctly its important. the manual is wrong and has been confirmed. It will make a huge difference and give you a very low pedal. Rich Will do ! yes the pedal travels along way before the brakes start working..so can i reset the clearance with out taken the brakes apart ?Im think`n just back off the ajusters and start again without opening the system.I dont want to introduce anymore air to the system. I think its air free by now Ive put almost a gallon of clean fluid through the system ??..thanks for your help Rich Mike |
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| r_towle |
Aug 28 2008, 10:16 AM
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#10
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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Yes you can adjust the rears without opening up the fluid system.
It the manual its regular maintenance. These rear calipers are not self adjusting like most. You need to do this as the pads wear...its a regular item to check. Learn how to do it right and buy the correct long ass allen wrench for the job. Rich |
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| 6freak |
Aug 28 2008, 10:30 AM
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#11
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MR.C Group: Members Posts: 4,740 Joined: 19-March 08 From: Tacoma WA Member No.: 8,829 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(r_towle @ Aug 28 2008, 08:16 AM) Yes you can adjust the rears without opening up the fluid system. It the manual its regular maintenance. These rear calipers are not self adjusting like most. You need to do this as the pads wear...its a regular item to check. Learn how to do it right and buy the correct long ass allen wrench for the job. Rich good i like the sounds of that.I have the tools.so yah the pedal feels good once it gets down there it just seems to travel along way before the brake aply. i hope that brings it back up....Thanks again Rich I will post the results tommorow..cross`n my fingers |
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| 6freak |
Aug 28 2008, 12:40 PM
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#12
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MR.C Group: Members Posts: 4,740 Joined: 19-March 08 From: Tacoma WA Member No.: 8,829 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(6freak @ Aug 28 2008, 09:30 AM) QUOTE(r_towle @ Aug 28 2008, 08:16 AM) Yes you can adjust the rears without opening up the fluid system. It the manual its regular maintenance. These rear calipers are not self adjusting like most. You need to do this as the pads wear...its a regular item to check. Learn how to do it right and buy the correct long ass allen wrench for the job. Rich good i like the sounds of that.I have the tools.so yah the pedal feels good once it gets down there it just seems to travel along way before the brake aply. i hope that brings it back up....Thanks again Rich I will post the results tommorow..cross`n my fingers What about mix`n dot 3 with dot 4 and can you use synthetic with the non synthetic |
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| 6freak |
Aug 28 2008, 01:08 PM
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#13
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MR.C Group: Members Posts: 4,740 Joined: 19-March 08 From: Tacoma WA Member No.: 8,829 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(6freak @ Aug 28 2008, 11:40 AM) QUOTE(6freak @ Aug 28 2008, 09:30 AM) QUOTE(r_towle @ Aug 28 2008, 08:16 AM) Yes you can adjust the rears without opening up the fluid system. It the manual its regular maintenance. These rear calipers are not self adjusting like most. You need to do this as the pads wear...its a regular item to check. Learn how to do it right and buy the correct long ass allen wrench for the job. Rich good i like the sounds of that.I have the tools.so yah the pedal feels good once it gets down there it just seems to travel along way before the brake aply. i hope that brings it back up....Thanks again Rich I will post the results tommorow..cross`n my fingers What about mix`n dot 3 with dot 4 and can you use synthetic with the non synthetic just read where you can mix 3and 4 and synthetic.....any thoughts on that |
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| r_towle |
Aug 28 2008, 03:47 PM
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#14
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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QUOTE(6freak @ Aug 28 2008, 03:08 PM) QUOTE(6freak @ Aug 28 2008, 11:40 AM) QUOTE(6freak @ Aug 28 2008, 09:30 AM) QUOTE(r_towle @ Aug 28 2008, 08:16 AM) Yes you can adjust the rears without opening up the fluid system. It the manual its regular maintenance. These rear calipers are not self adjusting like most. You need to do this as the pads wear...its a regular item to check. Learn how to do it right and buy the correct long ass allen wrench for the job. Rich good i like the sounds of that.I have the tools.so yah the pedal feels good once it gets down there it just seems to travel along way before the brake aply. i hope that brings it back up....Thanks again Rich I will post the results tommorow..cross`n my fingers What about mix`n dot 3 with dot 4 and can you use synthetic with the non synthetic just read where you can mix 3and 4 and synthetic.....any thoughts on that I never mix brake fluid, its just not cool. Dont cheap out on brake fluid, go buy more of the right stuff. Once you set the venting correctly you will finally be able to bleed out the air in the rear brakes...cant get it till they are set. Rich |
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| PeeGreen 914 |
Aug 28 2008, 06:48 PM
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#15
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Just when you think you're done...wait, there is more..lol Group: Members Posts: 10,219 Joined: 21-September 06 From: Seattle, WA... actually Everett Member No.: 6,884 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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Just go buy super blue and stop using Motul. I really don't think you do enough to see any difference and Motul is way more $.
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| Eric_Shea |
Aug 28 2008, 07:01 PM
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#16
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,275 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains  |
Me thinks: P-Valve and Pedal adjustment of the MC Accuator.
The little bits of dirt or dirty fluid is an excess of caliper assembly lube. I use it generously in the bores in case they sit for a while before installation. You probably have trapped air in the proportioning valve. You need to set the venting clearance as suggested and you should "check" to make sure the MC accuator is set properly at the pedal. For the P-Valve try a rubber mallet or simply drive on the bumpies for a few hours and do some panic stops in a deserted parking lot. 914's have to be one of the most difficult cars to bleed. |
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| PeeGreen 914 |
Aug 28 2008, 08:10 PM
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#17
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Just when you think you're done...wait, there is more..lol Group: Members Posts: 10,219 Joined: 21-September 06 From: Seattle, WA... actually Everett Member No.: 6,884 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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The Man hath spoke. Listen to the Man for he doth knoweth all about thine brakes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| Eric_Shea |
Aug 28 2008, 10:56 PM
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#18
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,275 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif) Yuk, yuk, yuk... ye humor me. I wish I knew how to make bleeding a 914 a little easier.
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| 6freak |
Aug 28 2008, 11:44 PM
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#19
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MR.C Group: Members Posts: 4,740 Joined: 19-March 08 From: Tacoma WA Member No.: 8,829 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Aug 28 2008, 09:56 PM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif) Yuk, yuk, yuk... ye humor me. I wish I knew how to make bleeding a 914 a little easier. So I reset the venting clearance and did a quick bleed (no bubbles or lube) the accuator is right on 0.040 so put it all back togather and went for a spin.the brakes where better and after 6 or 8 panick stops to wear of the new of the pads its pretty darn good. I guess i was expecting the pedal to come to the top but thats ok that it dont because when i do track days i like to blip the throttle when i down shift and if the brake pedal is at the top it would be tuff to do.So after all the painstacking work and money i think it will be ok. i will run over some bumps for the next few days and check it again ..thanks to all for the inputs and ideas ..so its off to Bremerton for Saterdays AX Im gonna put the whack on Jon this time (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) YEAH RIGHT.....again thanks to all Mike Crandall |
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| majkos |
Aug 30 2008, 05:19 PM
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#20
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,370 Joined: 29-February 04 From: Mile High 914 Member No.: 1,729 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Aug 28 2008, 08:56 PM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif) Yuk, yuk, yuk... ye humor me. I wish I knew how to make bleeding a 914 a little easier. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) "It's all good." I'm having a whee bit of problems myself, and thought, Hey! Look it up in the World site! Didn't know someone is was going through this process ahead of me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Anyhow, 914 is the hardest to bleed? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) I did not know that. My Green Machine must've been nice to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) My Silver Queen is also spongy in the pedals.(After major brake flush) But before I started on the brakes, during a long drive, awhile back, I lost pressure, and quickly pumps the brakes to stop the car. MC let go? I'm not sure what size MC, This car was set-up for SCCA, stock class (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) |
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