CAR HISTORY Options

[VRROOMM1]

i have a 70 black car came from so cal i have paperwork from day one but not from the dealer how can i find out the info on the car it is all original motor and trans 67 tho on odom if you can help thanks the porsche dealer in town cant find info on it. and porsche has no info any more.

[Pat Garvey]

Cerificate of Authenticity, from PCNA. Pricey, but worth it if the car means something to you.

[dempwolf@pctribe.com]

Can one get such a certificate if the car no longer has the original motor?

[Gustl]

sure, but then they don't list the correct engine number

you have to send them the numbers of your car and they only list matching numbers
otherwise it says "number not recorded" or something similar

so you know - when the COA shows the numbers you told them, then it's a matching numbers car

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Gustl

[zambezi]

Can one get such a certificate if the car no longer has the original motor?

I have obtained the COA for my 356 and 928 but not my 914 yet. Each time I only needed to give them the VIN number and they search their records and give you all the info they have. If they have records of the original engine numbers(which they almost always do) then they will give you the number your car was originally built with. The COA usually contains VIN number, Engine number, Trans number, Paint code, Interior color and material combo, and any ordered options if noted. For my 356 they gave me all that info, which I only new the VIN, but found out the trans was original. For the 928 They gave all the infor but the options area had "not recorded" typed in, but I know it has many factory installed options. So not all areas may give the needed info but is nice to have and I feel it adds to the value of the car as it increases the provonance of the car with documantation.
JIM

[Gustl]

wow - that's absolutely different from the European way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I know it for sure that neither in Germany nor in Austria you get engine or/and tranny number on the COA when you didn't tell them what you have (meaning: the correct ones). These are public rules for getting the COA.
Once I asked them why ... and the answer was: if Porsche tells you all the numbers, one might re-number another engine / tranny with the original numbers to get a "matching numbers car" - even if it's not. And this situation would increase the car's resale price under criminal aspects.

sounded logic for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[zambezi]

wow - that's absolutely different from the European way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

I know it for sure that neither in Germany nor in Austria you get engine or/and tranny number on the COA when you didn't tell them what you have (meaning: the correct ones). These are public rules for getting the COA.
Once I asked them why ... and the answer was: if Porsche tells you all the numbers, one might re-number another engine / tranny with the original numbers to get a "matching numbers car" - even if it's not. And this situation would increase the car's resale price under criminal aspects.

sounded logic for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Sound like the same logic with your system. If you tell them what you have in the car presently and they write down the numbers on a certificate stating those numbers are what the car should have then you have just dictated to the world what is correct and that seems more like fraud than our way here in the U.S. It is much harder to fake a correct numbered car than it is to just type any numbers on a certificate? Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this way but all I know is how it has worked for my last two COA's. Oh and my boss has had it done on 3 of his 356's and it was the same way also

[dempwolf@pctribe.com]

Thanks very much everybody that was very helpful, and yes I want the certificate and the engine case number if they give it to me so when someone is selling a /6 motor from 1972 I'll know when it's mine.
Thanks again.

[Gustl]

Sound like the same logic with your system. If you tell them what you have in the car presently and they write down the numbers on a certificate stating those numbers are what the car should have then you have just dictated to the world what is correct and that seems more like fraud than our way here in the U.S. It is much harder to fake a correct numbered car than it is to just type any numbers on a certificate? Maybe I'm wrong in thinking this way but all I know is how it has worked for my last two COA's. Oh and my boss has had it done on 3 of his 356's and it was the same way also

I'm afraid you didn't understand what I tried to say (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

in Europe you have to tell them VIN, engine number, tranny number and colour code from your car (what's actually on your car) when you ask for the COA
then the make the COA - but they only write down the numbers, if they match the original numbers

so:
if you get a COA with all the numbers of your car, then you know that you have a matching numbers car
if you get a COA without engine number, you know that your engine isn't the original one
if you get a COA without tranny number, you know that your tranny isn't the original one

of course, if you only tell them the VIN, they don't write down the other numbers

understand?

[zambezi]

I'm afraid you didn't understand what I tried to say (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

in Europe you have to tell them VIN, engine number, tranny number and colour code from your car (what's actually on your car) when you ask for the COA
then the make the COA - but they only write down the numbers, if they match the original numbers

so:
if you get a COA with all the numbers of your car, then you know that you have a matching numbers car
if you get a COA without engine number, you know that your engine isn't the original one
if you get a COA without tranny number, you know that your tranny isn't the original one

of course, if you only tell them the VIN, they don't write down the other numbers

understand?
[/quote]
O.K. now I get it. But for research purposes it is nice that they give you the info they have on file so you can start to look for the matching engine or trans. It would be impossible to do without that info. I guess it is based on the honor system that you will use the info to try and verify your car and locate the original stuff but not try and duplicate the numbers on a blank case to fraud others in thinking everything is matching numbers. So if you can get the info like here in the U.S. it is definitely worth doing.
JIM

[Gustl]

Jim, I absolutely agree - that's all about honesty

but I saw weird things in the past, where guys changed VINs, dublicated VINs and did some other criminal things just to get more money for their car

I know of a guy who had a geniune 911 RSR race car with known history
he built a perfect clone and even cloned the VIN, kept the original car in his collection and sold the clone to a guy in another country, but telling him that's the original car, just to get the premium $$$
it all came to the surface accidently

I also know a guy who sold a 914-6 GT (clone) with (manipulated) race history to another guy who just believed what he read on the papers ... bad luck, he payed about 4 times too much, because someone faked with VINs

Another example is that Austrian guy who claims that he owns a geniune 916 race car. Most of the real insiders know that this is absolutely nonsens. But he shows the car in his Museum with the info that it would be a real 916.

If anybody uses the information honestly I have to say that the American way with the COA is good.
But in this times I'm sure the European way is the better - because there's more security against mis-usage of information. It's a little bit of crime prevention in my eyes

just my 2 ct

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Gustl

[YksKrad]

Odd question, but if you were in Europe and wanted to 'make' a matching numbers car, couldn't you just get your COA from the US?

http://www.porsche.com/filestore.aspx/defa...iletype=default

I mean they charge 19USD more for non-us/canada coa's but I mean if someone really wanted to get the numbers so they could fake the originals.

[Gustl]

I guess most of the guys just don't know about this possibility (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I ordered a COA for my car from PCNA a couple of years ago, because I have a re-imported US-car and I thought it would be nice to have the US-version of the COA
I also ordered the german COA

not very surprising, there are some differences in both versions (IMG:http://www.oct.at/images/Smile_oh_no.gif)

- German one shows correct transmission number / US-version says NOT RECORDED
- German one shows correct tan leatherette interior / US-version says BLACK - PARTIAL LEATHER

all other things match ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Gustl

[EJP914]

Is there any way to determine which dealership the car was originally delivered to?

[dempwolf@pctribe.com]

I just read the Certificate of Auth. someone sent me, and find it does NOT say what is stated below, which I read when going to the link provided by YKS Krad in a previous comment.

Only vehicles produced for sale in the US or Canada are eligible for North American certification.
Since my 914 was sold first in France do I still send them a check with the vin# and hope for the best?? Karl

[Gustl]

Since my 914 was sold first in France do I still send them a check with the vin# and hope for the best??

ask Porsche - they will know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Gustl]

Is there any way to determine which dealership the car was originally delivered to?

I've seen COAs which say the exaxt dealer, others just show the city / country of the delivery

[dempwolf@pctribe.com]

Well I sent in my Vin# to Porsche Cars North America, and they sent me back the following information. Model Year/ Type 1972 914-6
Production completion date: Info not available
Suggested Retail Price: Not Available
Optional Equipment: Stabilizer Bars, Tinted Windshield and Side Glass
Engine number/Type: 6420085 (I have a question here)
Transmission number/Type:520061
Exterior Paint Color/Code: Gemini Blue Metallic/86
Interior Material Color/Type: Black/Red Leatherette/12

I would love to see an interior with that combination! The other question is concerning the engine number. I have been told that the /6 cars produced for European distribution in 1971 and 72 had the following number sequence 602xxxx and cars made for the US had numbers that started with 640xxxx. Could someone shed light on this. Thanks Karl

[Gustl]

Interior Material Color/Type: Black/Red Leatherette/12

I would love to see an interior with that combination!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) me too ...

[Gustl]

I have been told that the /6 cars produced for European distribution in 1971 and 72 had the following number sequence 602xxxx and cars made for the US had numbers that started with 640xxxx. Could someone shed light on this. Thanks Karl

6410xxx - MY'71 ROW
6413xxx - MY'71 ROW Sporto
6414xxx - MY'71 USA
6417xxx - MY'71 USA Sporto

6420xxx - MY'72 ROW

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Gustl