Your invitation to an intelligent discussion on vintage Porsche safety, Or random thoughts and a lot of questions, anyway.... Options

[justdrive914]

I don't really have any good ideas on what you can do to make a 914 a more crash-worthy street car. I've done some thinking about it, and every thing I have personally thought of is a compromise of some kind, making the 914 less of a street car...

I agree. The 914 though, from some of the wreckage posts, show that it can handle alot. Dr evil, r-towle, etc, cars can vouch for that. I've believe that because of the autobahn, German cars are generally much safer. When you see the safety and design of other cars of the era (like American Cars) they don't seem to be nearly as equipped to avoid a crash, and have the occupants survive the crash (read 'unsafe at any speed' from nader, and he's generally right). But in any case, an older car probably isn't going to do as well as a newer car, with their tougher crash standards. And since crashes are pretty random (from the bump at a parking lot or light, to a head on, or spinning out) its hard to judge how one will do. Its probably alot more luck than anything else.

Our speed limits are around 70 and now most all places on the autobahn are cut down to 80
The autobahn is safer because the drivers are safer, not necessarily the cars. When Germans get in their cars, they are there to drive. Not eat, talk on the phone or do their makeup.

that is a good point, but I still think, overall, German cars will survive better. I remember Nader's book brought up alot of good points (beyond the Corvair) and when I see classic American cars to euro counterparts, I can see what he was referring to. Also, accidents will happen, and you have to build to avoid them, but also survive them. If your national highway speed is 100+ vs our 65 max, you have to build a car that can survive much more. But yes, the drivers do play alot into that equation.

[ChrisFoley]

Apart from keeping the car in good structural and mechanical condition, having good tires for the conditions you are driving in, and making sure your seat belts are fully operable, there isn't much you can do to make the car any safer.
As for making the driver safer... sometimes feeling safer has exactly the opposite effect by making you behave more dangerously.
DE can train you to handle a car at high speeds but doesn't necessarily make you any safer on the streets. At first made me think I could go faster in my car - anywhere. It wasn't until I did a little SCCA road racing that I realized just how dangerous being behind the wheel IS. We all go the same direction, are totally focused on a singular activity, and prepare our cars extensively. Fortunately most crashes (I never call them accidents) may result in destroyed equipment, but little or no injury. Seeking the limits of control in order to be ahead of the competition is a frightening affair. That's why one's adrenalin is so high during a race.
By comparison, statistics show that driving on public roads is one of the most life threatening activities americans participate in, yet we typically travel along calmly oblivious to the unexpected event just over the horizon.
Car control clinics are probably the best activity to help raise one's situational awareness in the seemingly routine environment of street driving.

I drove my caged 914 on the street for a while.....right up to the time I bonked my haid on the upper longitudinal bar.....with a helmet on, 3 point belt and padded bar.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) ... told you so! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[horizontally-opposed]

So far, the sum I see is:

For street 914s:
-Don't add a roll bar or cage
-Porsche-engineered 3-point belts *might* be safer than aftermarket 5-point belts.
-Late 1973-on doors
-Check for rust in structure

What about:
-Seatbelt age -- and can we buy new replacements?
-Engman kit (good or bad in a crash? having just added it for other reasons, I'd think its additional strength inside the crush zones is a good thing)
-Modern, strong, ergonomic seats?

pete

[J P Stein]

I drove my caged 914 on the street for a while.....right up to the time I bonked my haid on the upper longitudinal bar.....with a helmet on, 3 point belt and padded bar.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) ... told you so! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

OK, OK....... this puts me down for being right only 97% of the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
It did happen at the track, thank God. Had I not been wearing a helmet I prolly couldn't type no mo.

[rick 918-S]

I'm too busy to go into much detail here, but as a former collision shop owner I've seen all kinds of damage. The Engman kit or the Mayeur kit would change the crash dynamics. However in both Dr Evils car and Rockets car The damage was closer to the cowl. It's likely the damage would still have looked some what the same. The snap may have been more abrupt. I think the lower stiffening of the box is fine. Think about how we add to the longs and the lower rear firewall, but we don't add anything to the front lower foot well area. I think that's good. It gives the side impact a place to crush. I would avoid tampering too much with the front or rear crush zones. We need our street cars to absorb energy. More thoughts later. I'm going out to work on my engine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/assimilate.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

The mass of a vehicle is equal to its weight X the square of the speed in feet per second.

Actually, mass is mass; kinetic energy is 1/2 mass * velocity ^2. But the point still stands.


...Rich makes some very good points, as well. I figure the Mayeur and Engman kits don't really do much either way for crashes, though, as in most cases the longitudinals are below the level of the bumper of whomever hits us.

The longs are probably weaker than they were originally designed to be, so reinforcing them probably won't strengthen them to the point where it makes things worse. But that is quite frankly a total SWAG.

I have toyed, on occasion, with the notion of having NASCAR bars built inside the door, from the hinge points to the latch. I'm not sure if the hinges and latch could take it very well in the event of a side impact, though. And I do have to wonder how strong would be "too strong". There's just not much space to the side to absorb impact.

--DD

[skeates]

I would agree with what seems to be the general consensus of the discussion thus far. These cars are designed amazingly well when it comes to crash safety (especially considering their vintage). The "American philosophy" behind car safety seems to be gregariously passive. I know many people who justified their F**d expeditions because of the "extra metal" around them if someone were to hit them.

What people don't seem to understand it that, yes that extra metal will prevent another car from crushing into yours as much, but it also dramatically increases the forces to which the driver is subject to. Its called conservation of energy! Less energy is "absorbed" in the twisting, bending, and crushing of the cars frames which means that the rest of the car (of which you as the driver are a part) receives the remainder of the energy...enter the umteen million airbags in modern vehicles. Passive crash safety is all an energy game. Trying to get rid of the cars energy without imparting it onto the driver. If we start messing with the crush zones in the car (i.e. adding tubular frames and what not) the driver must be prepared to take this extra load! In a full race set-up many extra provisions are added to the car specifically designed to safely decelerate the driver...unfortunately these provisions require not only a controlled environment (i.e. the race track), but they also render your car very inconvenient to drive as a daily driver.

With all that said, I think that the engineers at Porsche knew what they were doing and their brilliance is shown every time we see pictures of mangled 914s who have left their passengers perfectly intact (though that can't be said of the passengers pocket books (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) ). For those of us who drive our cars on the street, the best safety upgrade is educating and preparing the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif). Beyond that I would say either public transportation or a large suit of bubble wrap.

As far as preventing people from adding things to their car that they think is safe but in fact might kill them...again, only driver education will have any effect here. Most companies who sell the stuff only care about the $$$. They tend not to tell you why you shouldn't use their product...just how much cheaper theirs is from the next guys. That job is left to the consumer and the educators...Then again, I've been known to get cynical around big business (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)