Carb Setting Nightmare, Always better to do it yourself?? |
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Carb Setting Nightmare, Always better to do it yourself?? |
vesnyder |
Sep 27 2008, 06:29 PM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 680 Joined: 14-April 05 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 3,933 |
I have been having issues with adjusting the carbs on my rebuilt 1911 so I thought I would see what a professional could do. This local mechanic specializes in Porsche's and has recently gotten a dyno so I thought I would have him adjust my Webers. The car was running fine but was rich at higher RPM's as confirmed by his dyno and sensors he was using to adjust. I had 28 mm venturis and 115 mains. It ran good but the rich situation gave me concerns particularly on a rebuilt motor. I went to pick it up after he had the car for several days and he said he was having issues. The car was running like crap, backfiring and missing. He said the carbs were adjusted good but it was either the distributor or the valves??? He had put in 195 mains and 34 mm venturis? Upon further inspection he had a 185 in one of the carbs? WTF? On top of that he charged me $320? I am done with so-called experts. This takes the cake!
BTW I am working with Jogn at AirCooled to fix! |
Mark Henry |
Sep 27 2008, 07:04 PM
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#2
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
If there is no issues with the engine (condition, timing, etc) the number one problem is always linkage...linkage...LINKAGE.
It MUST open and close at the same rate, smoothly, no bind, no sideload. I haven't seen many linkage set-ups I like and the ones for type 4 suck dog butt so I make my own center pulls from scratch. Just had to fix up one of my setups that a respected porsche shop (Mantas) totally f'ed up. Nothing wrong with it, but the operator was clueless. 195 mains...WTF....I've done a 2.6l (44 webers) T4 and I don't think it's past 165's BTW if you look at my main# it's wrong as I reem my mains, so it might say 135 but it's really 155... so # mean nothing to me. |
Mark Henry |
Sep 27 2008, 07:17 PM
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#3
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
my linkage on a 2.6l T4
Attached thumbnail(s) |
Zundfolge |
Sep 27 2008, 07:20 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 847 Joined: 12-August 07 From: Colorado Springs Member No.: 7,994 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
So is $320 the going rate for setting up carbs?
I understand the guy the OP went to is an idiot, but if I could find someone that did a good job to set mine up for that I'd seriously consider it. |
Jake Raby |
Sep 27 2008, 11:19 PM
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#5
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
320.00 for a day on a chassis dyno is fair, BUT he was obviously lost with the venturi and main jetting.
The issue with vents larger than 32mm in a weber 40 is the loss of carburetion... Meaning the huge vent slows the air speed to the point the engine is hard to tune. BIGGER IS NOT BETTER! Try this 32 vents 130 main 200 air F11 emulsion |
ChrisFoley |
Sep 28 2008, 12:29 AM
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#6
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,894 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None |
I agree that 32mm venturis in 40mm carbs would likely improve the top end on your 1911, wiithout compromising a/f quality at idle and midrange. Anything bigger will kill low end performance and efficiency.
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SGB |
Sep 28 2008, 01:00 AM
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#7
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just visiting Group: Members Posts: 4,086 Joined: 8-March 03 From: Huntsville, AL Member No.: 404 Region Association: South East States |
Can't get this kinda qualified advise for mere money. Try Jake's setup. I'll bet it is the one.
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vesnyder |
Sep 28 2008, 10:04 AM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 680 Joined: 14-April 05 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 3,933 |
Thanks! I was moving in the same direction. What is the "200 Air" recommendation?
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r_towle |
Sep 28 2008, 10:58 AM
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#9
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,498 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
my linkage on a 2.6l T4 Nice and pretty. Got a pic of one in a flat setup?? Not for a beetle?? The cable would not make it there? I agree that every single one of the linkage setups Sucks... If the original poster still has issues and cant afford a decent linkage setup, I can offer you this advice. the CB style cross bar linkage properly setup (as best as you can get it) opens the carbs at different rates. If you imagine a vertical plane running side to side and you measure the top of the drop link and the bottom on both sides you will notice they are are different angles. Out of the box this is how it sets up. Start by making sure that side to side you have the drop links parallel...measure from top of one drop link to the top of the other...and bottom to bottom. Make the parallel first. Now to fix them so they match in the other direction you need one drop link to mount to the back of the throttle plate and the other to mount to the front. This varies depending upon what throttle plates you are using..there are quite a few, but non of them fix the problem entirely. Once you have it close you need to measure what the difference is...so if you are down to 1/2 or 3/4 of an inch you need to move both arms 50% of that difference to make them line up. Go to the hardware store with the little ball bolt that is mounted to the throttle plate and find one of the little hex rod couplers...its basically a long nut threaded all the way through. You will also need a tap that matches your ball bolt. The hex bar couplers are 1/4 20 SAE thread...BUT...you can tap them for the ball cup..it works. Pick up a few of those, cut them to length, tap them correctly and bolt them onto the throttle plate, then bolt in the ball bolt. At the end of the day, this is as close as you can get to perfect...you end up being a bit off so you can clear the air cleaner housing, but its alot closer than before. If you are a picture guy, go to www.356registry.org, look in the technical section and read the article about carb linkage... This has been an issue since Webers were first bolted on to porsche motors. Porsche overcame this issue with offset carb manifolds and offet throttle plates on the Solex carbs...really subtle but they step it back just a little bit on both the carbs and the manifold so the end results are the drop links are on the same plane all the way through the cycle. Rich |
chris914 |
Sep 28 2008, 03:25 PM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 489 Joined: 24-July 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 2,393 Region Association: Southern California |
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chris914 |
Sep 28 2008, 03:30 PM
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 489 Joined: 24-July 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 2,393 Region Association: Southern California |
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gopack |
Sep 28 2008, 04:44 PM
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#12
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CHEESEHEAD in CA, MARK Group: Members Posts: 744 Joined: 7-August 04 From: Folsom, CA Member No.: 2,472 Region Association: Northern California |
That last one looks like mine. Who makes that one and are there the same types of problems as with the hex bar setups? seems to have worked well when the car was actually being driven!
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chris914 |
Sep 28 2008, 05:36 PM
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 489 Joined: 24-July 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 2,393 Region Association: Southern California |
It's made by CSP in Germany. Bolt it in, adjust the two arms to equal lengths, and drive away. I had to make the cable bracket and add a return spring.
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mattp |
Sep 28 2008, 06:53 PM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 257 Joined: 22-November 06 From: westchester NY Member No.: 7,252 |
I really like the set up but cant seem to find it on net, is it the same set up they are selling in CSP canada for the type 1?
Where did you get it and how much was it? How / what did you make your cable bracket out of, it looks like a great set up, very simple. Matt |
chris914 |
Sep 28 2008, 09:29 PM
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 489 Joined: 24-July 04 From: San Diego, CA Member No.: 2,393 Region Association: Southern California |
Thanks, The bracket is made of stainless steel to match the linkage made by CSP. I had the bracket CNC from an AutoCAD file I drew up.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?Pr...129%2D941%2D400 |
watsonrx13 |
Sep 29 2008, 06:30 AM
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#16
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,734 Joined: 18-February 03 From: Plant City, FL Member No.: 312 Region Association: South East States |
Thanks, The bracket is made of stainless steel to match the linkage made by CSP. I had the bracket CNC from an AutoCAD file I drew up. http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?Pr...129%2D941%2D400 Chris, excellent set up, it's what I've been looking for. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) Can you post the dimensions of the cable bracket you made? -- Rob |
ArtechnikA |
Sep 29 2008, 10:08 AM
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#17
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
Thanks! I was moving in the same direction. What is the "200 Air" recommendation? Air Correction Jet. A typical Weber jet stack is (top to bottom) Air correction jet, emulsion tube, main jet. Carbs tend to run increasingly rich as the airflow increases. The air correction jet provides a compensating air bleed to progressively lean the mixture as airflow increases. If your AFR is decent up to peak torque but fattens up too much after that, a bigger air correction jet is the right call. It's all about balancing all the nonlinearities... Also - you can't be too quick to blame your wrench just because you have one jet that is marked differently than the others. Just as there are jet reamers that make the holes bigger (without remarking the jet...) there are jet gauges that let you measure the -real- size. For background - the size of a Solex/Weber/Dellorto (maybe others...) jet is the diameter of the hole in hundredths of a mm. Eg: a 115 jet is 1,15mm DIAMETER. Flow is proportional to the AREA. |
Borderline |
Sep 29 2008, 10:50 AM
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#18
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 720 Joined: 8-February 05 From: San Juan Bautista, CA Member No.: 3,577 Region Association: Northern California |
When I bought my 40's they came with a similar setup but not as purdy. I've found that when synching the carbs it helps to do it twice. The first time is the normal idle adjust and the linkage disconnected. The second time I put a little tension on the throttle cable to bring the engine up off idle so that it is controlled by the throttle linkage (~2k rpm). I then balance the flow a second time by adjusting the linkage lengths. This works well for my setup. Of course, I recall reading somewhere that this type of center pull system doesn't work because of the heat expansion of the engine. So make sure when you do your adjustments that the engine is good and warm!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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r_towle |
Sep 29 2008, 10:53 AM
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#19
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,498 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
It's all about balancing all the nonlinearities... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) I need a new dictionary. Rich |
Joe Ricard |
Sep 29 2008, 02:37 PM
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#20
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CUMONIWANNARACEU Group: Members Posts: 6,811 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Gautier, MS Member No.: 92 |
Rob Watson you paid attention to my engine you would see a very similair linkage set up like the CSP unit.
Yep hook it up and balance flow side to side and leave it alone. I am using Spherical bearing vs. the clip and ball sockets. but pretty much the same. |
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