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> Strengthen up my chassis, before I brake something
airsix
post Mar 26 2003, 05:37 PM
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I need a plan of attack for my chassis. Last year I fixed minor rust on the passenger side engine shelf and firewall areas. Engine was out and everything was inspected from the floor-pan to the tail-lights. No rust anywhere in the longs or pan, suspension console, firewall (fixed), engine shelf (fixed), etc. It was all solid except for the shelf/firewall area that was fixed.

The problem is that I've got a little pinching of the door gap on the passenger side. (It's been that way since I bought the car 3 years ago) Repeated inspections reveal no rust anywhere that could be causing this. What's the deal? Did something bend or brake? ...because there's no rust in the longs, or between the longs and suspension console - the whole area is solid and looks perfect. What's up with this?

Car is stiffly sprung, autocrossed, and driven hard. I've got a full bottle of shielding gas and a full spool of wire ready to go as soon as there's a plan. Should I use a Brad & Tony style fixture to push out the door gap I want and weld in a GT stiffening kit? I don't want to do a Brad M. long kit - too heavy. A cage from Tony? Can't drive thousands of miles for that. Other ideas or recomendations? (What I really really really really want is Tony to make me a custom cage in kit form).

I'm open to all ideas.

-Ben M. (914 fund recharged and ready to go)
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Jeroen
post Mar 26 2003, 06:03 PM
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Hey Ben,

check this thread...

Make sure you read the complete thread, I think you'll find it usefull...

Before you start welding, you can also just jack up the car untill the door-gaps are what they are supposed to be (instead of installing the Brad/Tony doorbars)

If the problem is in the rear suspension area (which it prolly is) then you need a cage that ties into the suspension pick-ups. If you're racing or AX-ing that may bump you into some nasty class, so check that as well

If Tony is to far away, there should be a decent cagebuilder near you. Maybe "Racer Chris" is in your area?

HTH,

Jeroen
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 26 2003, 06:37 PM
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90% of the cars we put cages in where "shrunk" on the passenger side of the car. Battery acid still seeps into the frame rail and "softens" it. I wouldnt worry about it. Measure it now and check it at the end of this season. If it gets worse... then start thinking about a scab plate ON THE INSIDE of the tub in the back corners behind the seats. Carpet it over it and call it rust repair when the "rules people" inspect the car.


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john rogers
post Mar 26 2003, 07:01 PM
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Along with the cage or roll bar with diagonal brace, try finding someone that has had the suspension console reenforced or braced and all the joints where the rear sheetmetal and frame tie together. I have seen several cars have the inner console rip loose especially when you add more power, sticky tires and hard driving. Good luck.
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Dave_Darling
post Mar 26 2003, 08:37 PM
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Silly suggestion--Run a bead of weld along the underside of the longitudinal under the rear of the door opening. Doesn't have to be fastening anything together, just heat the metal up. It will tend to shrink a little as it cools, and may pull the opening wider. JP did that on his car a couple of times. (The first time was unintentional, right JP? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif))

Then again, maybe it's just the hinges being a little out of adjustment??

--DD
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jdogg
post Mar 26 2003, 09:22 PM
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Brad - have you got a pic somewhere of exactly the area you are referring to scabbing a plate onto. Are you talking about cutting some of the inner firewall away to gain access to the longitudinal area under there and scab something onto the Long., o rjust something that ties the firewall to the long and the floor? I just did a similar repair on my car, but want to see if I had the right idea.
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 26 2003, 09:56 PM
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I dont have a pic of it, but you have the right idea. Dont remove any material. Make a scab plate that makes a 90 degree bend from the logitudinal to the bottom of the firewall. Run the plate 8-10 inches forward (it will be next to the seat bottom) and 8-10 inches towards the center of the car along the firewall. You will have to make holes in it for the lower outside seatbelt mounts. You can run this scab plate as far you want towards the center tunnel and as far up the rails as you want.

Of course I have a pic (I'm 914 pic king)

B
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ChrisFoley
post Mar 26 2003, 11:14 PM
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As Dave D. suggested, any welding you do along the bottom of the longitudinal will tend to open up the door gap a little. Adding a reinforcing plate at the same time can only help, just don't overdo it.
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airsix
post Mar 26 2003, 11:53 PM
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Wow, where to start? Thanks guys for the tips and suggestions. Brad, thanks for the thought about battery acid "softening" the whole area. Jeroen, thanks for the tips and the link to the other thread. I hadn't read the last two pages - thanks for sending me back. Great info. Though Tony didn't post - thanks Tony for the pictures on your site showing the rear suspension tie-ins to the cage. Great stuff. Dave, thanks for the tip about heating up the bottom of the longitudinal. Hadn't thought of that.

I think I will start by running some hot beads along the bottom of the long from forward of the jack post back up past the bend to see if that will open up the door gap. Then I'll scab-plate the corners of the inner rockers/firewall as Brad suggests to help it stay put (and maybe a couple of the GT kit pieces on the outside). I'm tempted to run the scab plates on the inner rockers all the way forward to the front wheelwells per Brad's comments in the other thread if it doesn't add too much weight. I'm undecided on that though.

-Ben M.

ps - Racer Chris says "Just don't over do it". he he he . Over do it? Who me? he he he If I didn't know better I'd think you could read my mind or something.
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Tony C
post Mar 27 2003, 12:03 AM
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Ben, let me know if you have any questions on the pictures.

-Tony

Oh, any I *may* be offering a few cage kits, email me for more info.
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Mueller
post Mar 27 2003, 12:10 AM
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Tony....make people that want a "kit" cage send in a sample of thier welding to see if they pass (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


Ben,

Not that I recommend it, but I have heard of people welding in 2" or larger diameter tubing inside of the longs....
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 27 2003, 12:11 AM
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Yeah !! get rid of some of those "short" main hoops.


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ChrisFoley
post Mar 27 2003, 07:02 AM
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QUOTE(airsix @ Mar 26 2003, 09:53 PM)
Racer Chris says "Just don't over do it". he he he . Over do it? Who me? he he he If I didn't know better I'd think you could read my mind or something.

I'm no mind reader, but I live in the rust belt. Simply put - BTDT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
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