[NPC] War Stories, check these out Options

[seanery]

The UN has turned into an organization of pansies!

They prolly woulda let one of your countries past rulers do his thing, too.
(flamesuit on)

[tracks914]

The UN has turned into an organization of pansies!

Pansies yes, but pansies with the majority of world support. They have to be massaged into knowing what they want. That is the job of a good diplomat not a thug.

[tracks914]

Does anyone think Al Gore would be at war right now?

[seanery]

Al Gore?

Who the fuck is Al Gore?
It's a damn good thing he wasn't pres when the 9-11 attacks happened.

AL fucking Gore, HA!

[tracks914]

It's a damn good thing he wasn't pres when the 9-11 attacks happened.

Enlighten me, how would it have turned out any different. Would more plane have hit?

[Brad Roberts]

I'm scared. I think when we do make it to Baghdad our soldiers are going to be slaughtered. I cant imagine holding a gun pointing at a Iraqi debating on whether he is civilian or military while he pulls a gun out and shoots me before I shoot him. All because I hesitated.

Fun times.

B

[Jeroen]

Yep, Vietnam all over again...

Could even be worse because of the much denser population in the city of Baghdad than the jungles of Vietnam

cheers,

Jeroen

[seanery]

Gore would have hid in a shed in TN, his home state (which he didn't win).
He's not a leader, he's a whiner. Oh, by the way Tipper was the one leading that
whole album labeling bullshit-yes it was the left!

[mskala]

the middle east is THE key supplier for the US (and others) oil consumption.
therefore the US has a strong interest in keeping the region politically stable
to ensure undisturbed oil-flow.
and iraq is considered a threat to that stability.
this is not about terrorism. no iraqi has ever attacked

Not that I was accused, but I certainly don't believe that a
major reason we went into Iraq was to liberate them. Of
course for political reasons it is always good to remind
people that that is one hopefully good result from what is
being done.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't remember anything
changing in the oil flow in the last decade, didn't seem like
any stability problem from Iraq. Heck, Saddam's been around
longer than most leaders in the area. So I don't believe
the stability of oil is really it. Bush would go drill Alaska if
he really needed oil stability. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

I know there is no direct link found between Saddam and
any of the terrorists. I kinda suspect there is one, but a
guy who can hide money as good as he can and hide other
stuff from the world may never be found out. The real
problem we're told is that Iraq is a likely place for terrorists
to acquire stuff to attack us. And I believe that. Maybe
I'm just falling for the line, but hey whatever.

Mark S.
'70 914-6

[rick 918-S]

Hey! Al Gore invented the internet!(LOL) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pain30.gif)

[74GoKart]

I agree that Saddam is a real fucker and should be taken out!!
He should have been taken out when he used to be best of buddies with our whole White House staff and supporting the world's weapon market.

"Powell condemned Saddam’s “use of mustard and nerve gas against the Kurds in 1988” that killed “Five thousand men, women and children.” True, but he did so with the blessing at the time of many Reaganites who now serve Bush — including Powell. In 1988, “Secretary of State Colin Powell was then the national security adviser who orchestrated Ronald Reagan’s decision to give Hussein a pass for gassing the Kurds,” says former U.S. Ambassador to Croatia, Peter Galbraith in the Boston Globe ( http://www.boston.com/globe/magazine/2002/...tire.htm)\"
Dennis Hans
Let's not forget Reagan’s special emissary to Baghdad, Donald Rumsfeld.

How about:

"Saddam Hussein's use of chemical weapons in the past is repeatedly cited by the US and British governments as justification for his removal from power now. But just what was their response to his use of poison gas against Iranian troops and Iraqi Kurds in the 1980s? Far from condemning his actions, they stepped up their support for Baghdad. One of the most damning revelations to come out of the Scott inquiry into the arms-to-Iraq affair was the British government's secret decision to supply Saddam with even more weapons-related equipment after he shelled the Kurdish town of Halabja in March 1988 with gas bombs, killing an estimated 5,000 civilians and maiming thousands more. Saddam said he had punished the Kurds for "collaboration" after the town had been successfully attacked by Iran. The weapons were produced with German-supplied chemicals.

This cynicism and hypocrisy was matched only by the US. Soon after the attack, Washington approved the export to Iraq of virus cultures and a $1bn contract to design and build a petrochemical plant the Iraqis planned to use to produce mustard gas. And while the Reagan administration condemned the use of chemical weapons during the eight-year Iraq-Iran war, US officers were secretly supplying Iraqi generals with bomb-damage assessments and detailed information on Iranian troop deployments.
"The use of gas on the battlefield by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern," Walter Lang, a former senior US defense intelligence officer, told the New York Times this week. Washington was worried about the threat of Iran spreading its Islamic revolution to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia."
Richard Norton-Taylor
Wednesday August 21, 2002
The Guardian

But the war is not about oil? What do all of these people know the most about?

George W. Bush, 1978-84: senior executive, Arbusto Energy/Bush Exploration, an oil company; 1986-90: senior executive of the Harken oil company. Dick Cheney, 1995-2000: chief executive of the Halliburton oil company. Condoleezza Rice, 1991-2000: senior executive with the Chevron oil company, which named an oil tanker after her....Saddam sits on the second biggest oilfield in the world. America's economy depends on oil for: generating power to run factories, powering cars to get the workforce to those factories, and transporting goods produced by those workers in those factories We will not take their oil. Instead, we will help them rebuild their oil infrastructure along with their schools and hospitals. Bush has promised that they will be able to use their money from oil sales to pay for their nations reconstruction. The Bush administration has already picked companies to help Iraq do this..in a slightly unusual manner. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/World/i...ract030322.html We will not take their oil, but we will take their oil money...at least some of us will. http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/28/...8653848780.html Is it also possible we will be more likely to get favorable trading for the oil we do need to buy after we go through all the trouble of helping them rebuild their country?

Of course, I would never suggest that anyone would try to use this whole Iraq situation to their advantage. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,...,918742,00.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/st...,924541,00.html
None of the companies that will benefit the most, or their stockholders, would ever try to influence national policy. (Don't even try to suggest something so ENRON-ish)
None of these people will ever be paid outrageous sums to give speeches or be an adviser later on down the road.

Nor would I suggest that having Uzbekistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan under new leadership that is US friendly would have ever been on our minds.
http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/uzbekistan.htm

It is true that Iraq is in violation of a much older UN resolution. I just think that it is mighty funny that nobody was in a hurry to deal with Iraq until we got the son of the man, who's war brought about the first resolution, in the driver's seat. Of course, it is all about disobeying a UN resolution. If this is true, why do we support Israel both politically and monetarily in its continuing disregard for UN resolutions? Is it about getting rid of an evil dictator? We can't stand evil dictators...except when we need them. Read up on Pakistan and Uzbekistan. For that matter, we killed off the Indians, we blew up nukes near our own troops to test the after effects, but there is no UN resolution for either one of those.

I will say once again..Yes, Saddam is BAD!! He probably has reserved parking in Hell. Just don't tell me how he is doing all this shit, and never show me the proof. Don't tell me that we know he has chemical and biological weapons, but leave out the part about how we helped him acquire them and finance him because he was needed at the time. Don't give me every reason but the truth in a long winded speech. It is in our best interest to have stable, American friendly governments in that area. Fine!

[SirAndy]

74GoKart (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

thank you sir!

[silver six]

It appears this war is not as black and white as the Bush administration would want you to believe. I wish I had an oil tanker named after me.

Now I'm with 74 GoKart and Sir Andy.

Douglas

[tracks914]

74GoKart

Some else with knowledge, research and intelligence. Not someone willing to take Bush's word for it that it has to be done for "these reasons".
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

But what would you do now that we are already in Iraq?

[Brad Roberts]

I have tried many times in the past to undo my "mistakes". Thank God I dont have to "fix" them in front of them world.


So.. how do I get into politics ??

Good reading 74.

So... did George Bush have anything to do with this in the past ?(besides the obvious link to oil) which all Texans have (including me)



B

[tracks914]

Gore would have hid in a shed in TN, his home state (which he didn't win).
He's not a leader, he's a whiner. Oh, by the way Tipper was the one leading that
whole album labeling bullshit-yes it was the left!

If he was still in a shed, not one American or British soldier would be DEAD from this action.
The price of oil versus the price of human life, if it was your son killed in Iraq you might think different.

By the way, at the cost of this war that the US is forking out,($75B) how long could you have subsudized the price of oil or spent it on exploration in North America so we are not dependants of the Middle East?

[r_towle]

The scary part to me is that the UN was formed to eliminate the alliances that where in existance for 2000 years previous.

These alliances are what got us into many wars, WW1, WW2 etc...look back and see all the failed attempts at global domination and the alliances that formed because of these wars, and caused the wars.

The UN has just been broken down to a truely powerless entity, when in reality we all need the UN to become more powerful to attain true global peace.

Fuck OPEC, give the UN the power over the oil and then the UN will have real power.

Give the UN the power over the money and the flow of capital and then we will have peace, till then its just a stupid game that no one wins.

I am truely sorry that George Bush stole the election and all the old boys who didnt do it right while with George Senior are now trying to fix there previous mistakes.

It scares me that the right wing of our society, I mean the far right...has such a close relationship with Bush.

The homeland Security office is a Mcarthy-est organisation that will eliminate our civil rights if we let them....

Scary times....

[SirAndy]

74GoKart,
this is exactly what i meant when i said "educate yourself" before
you come to any final conclusions about something as important as a war. all the info you mentioned plus the stuff i have brought up is publicly available. if you have followed world politics for some 20+ years like i have, all of this info was in the news at one point in time. if you haven't followed world politics closely, you're missing some variables in the equation. go educate yourself. go to your local library and look up news articles from those events mentioned. it's all out there (hmmm, sounds like the x-files, hehe) ...

Andy

[SirAndy]

So... did George Bush have anything to do with this in the past ?(besides the obvious link to oil) which all Texans have (including me)

good question!
i do not know the answer.
but he smoked pot in the past. does that make a difference?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[74GoKart]

I cannot tell you what we should do now. I do not think anyone knows. We are stepping in it big time. There are so many issues that are part of this problem, that we will have to be very careful in how we handle this to not end up in another Vietnam or unknowingly setting in motion the next 9-11.
We are doing exactly that Brad, going in to fix a problem we helped invent. I can only tell you that this is all part of the path our government chose years ago.
We trained freedom fighters in Afghanistan to get rid of the Soviets that were there looking for some beach front property. We helped those guys, which in turn helped us shut down the USSR's chances of getting all that oil and natural gas to a sea port and prevented them from having another money making outlet. Standard Cold War tactics. We helped Iraq because we hated Iran. We dropped them both like a hot rock after we got so far down the road. Now we have people pissed at us all around the world.
I may not think that this was the only way to clean this mess up, but I also do not think that my opinion matters that much to all the limo riding fuckers in DC. I do feel that it was our mess, and now our responsibility. But, like I said earlier, the real reasons have been spelled out in past press conferences, newspapers, and speeches. It would be nice if they would stop trying to play the whole "holier than thou." Some Americans are actually smart enough to understand what is going on, and it really pisses me off that they try to put a good PR spin on it to make it sellable to the dumb, non history knowing, sheep..I mean voters. How helpful to the next campaign would the war be if they told the whole story?