[NPC] War Stories, check these out Options

[tracks914]

this is exactly what i meant when i said "educate yourself" before
you come to any final conclusions about something as important as a war. all the info you mentioned plus the stuff i have brought up is publicly available. if you have followed world politics for some 20+ years like i have, all of this info was in the news at one point in time. if you haven't followed world politics closely, you're missing some variables in the equation. go educate yourself. go to your local library and look up news articles from those events mentioned. it's all out there (hmmm, sounds like the x-files, hehe) ...

Andy

Way up here we still have 90% of our TV is American based. But we do get a different look at the news with CTV, CBC and BBC. I watch CNN all the time but it amazes me with the different coverage of the same story from other sourses. CNN is really good at quick sound bytes of info but can readily gloss over some touchy issues like foreign policy and Israel. It seems that the American media are so closely tied to the government and dare I say the "J" word, that they do not want to offened the government for fear of reprisals?
The Daily Show with Jon Stewart has the best coverage of the war and American politics. He is not affraid to tell it like he sees it. (Rep or Dem)

[SirAndy]

Way up here we still have 90% of our TV is American based. But we do get a different look at the news with CTV, CBC and BBC.

yeah, i watched FOX news last night and they ripped that actress lady apart like she just had tried to assassinate bush. and all that for just raising her arm at the Oscars and making a peace sign. WTF? she didn't even say a word. (no anti-american, no anti-bush, no anti-anything comment). and they totally accused her of being a national traitor. so much for "freedom of speech".
"pro peace" now means anti-american?
"pro peace" now means anti-patriotic?
"pro peace" now means you forfeit your right for "free speech"?

???

[Brad Roberts]

Something else that scares me: While educating myself on this mess... I have to read what somebody else wrote. I absolutely think our media is bending over for the government so my reading is taken with a grain of salt. We dont KNOW 100% that any of the past events or current events are being reported without some kind of slant.

I read the Iraqi military is shooting other Iraqi's as they flee. Is this true ?

I read we bombed a market place. Is this true ? or did Saddam blow it up and blame it on us ?

I question everything.

B

[SirAndy]

1) I read the Iraqi military is shooting other Iraqi's as they flee. Is this true ?

2) I read we bombed a market place. Is this true ? or did Saddam blow it up and blame it on us ?

1) altough i do not know, i wouldn't surprise me.
a lot of armys have done that in the past ...

2) again, i do not know for sure, but both possibilities would
not surprise me very much. even with 80% being "smart" bombs,
there's always room for error (intended or not). and it also
could very well be a scam from saddams troops.

i guess, the question is, either way, does it reallly make a difference?

i am more concerned about the fact that the US is now controlling some 75% of the country and they haven't found any WMD yet.
and the iraqis haven't used any mustard gas yet either. does that mean they don't have any? or does it mean they're waiting for the US to get to the capitol to get them all at once? and what if there will be no WMD at the end of the war? can bush afford NOT to find any? and if not, would he go ahead and "plant" some to get international justification for his war?

i suppose we have to wait and see ...

[Brad Roberts]

Ha ha.. Of course he will plant some if they dont find any.

My honest gut feeling: they have WMD. Saddam knows damn well if he used them it would justify the whole war (to some extent)

Raises another question:

Did we plant what they have found recently (3000 some od gas masks) ?? Or was the Iraqi military planning something for us.

Nothing we say or do makes a difference... so NO its doesnt.


B

[SirAndy]

Did we plant what they have found recently (3000 some od gas masks) ?? Or was the Iraqi military planning something for us.

haha, just 3000? you'll find more gas-masks in novato these days ...

and what about those (empty!) grenade shells that "could have been used for mustard gas" ???

i'm actually with you on the gut feeling that they at least
have some mustard gas sitting somewhere. and if they do,
they will use it once it gets ugly ... sure glad i'm not in Baghdad.

[74GoKart]

I think that a lot of people should actually pay attention to what is going on. If it sounds like the "X-Files" or "1984," then maybe people should pull their heads out of the mass pacifier (TV) and get back into making this a government of the people, for the people, by the people. Most of the information you need to make informed opinions is readily available just by typing. You can read the news from around the world http://newslink.org/news.html, watch CSPAN to see what they are debating, or read up on the new bills and issues on congressional websites. There are countless ways to get information, but most people are too busy, too lazy, or too trusting to make that effort. We "elected" these people, our opinions are supposedly what they make laws and foreign policy by. When we do not pay attention to what is going on in front of our faces, we really do not have the right to complain later when the bills come due for all the shit they have done in our name.
Has anyone actually watched how much of our freedom has been taken away right in front of our own faces? For our own good of course. I am not talking conspiracies, I am talking about self serving politics.
As far as whether or not there really are WMD in Iraq, I would be willing to bet that there are. What moron would spend all that money, time,and effort only to get rid of the very thing that keeps the surrounding countries on their side of the line. We have all that shit, plus god knows what else...it is called a deterrent

[Don Wohlfarth]

Brad, understand your concerns about hesitating while trying to figure out friend or foe. Latest papers say that a major concern is just the opposite is happening as solders find out about Iraqi's hiding among civilians. Self preservation is a powerful motivator...for both sides.
This brings up a interesting paradox for the US when they state they will prosecute for crimes against humanity. Does the date Mar 16, 1968, ring a bell? Almost 35 years to the day, My Lai?
Andy, I'm well aware that the US is no knight in shinning armour. Decisions were made that seemed like a good idea at the time. Hindsight always gives us the luxury of asking, what the fuck were you thinking?

[tracks914]

they totally accused her of being a national traitor. so much for "freedom of speech".
"pro peace" now means anti-american?
"pro peace" now means anti-patriotic?
"pro peace" now means you forfeit your right for "free speech"?

How about the lead singer for the Dixie Chicks? You don't get any more American than that but when she spoke out against the war, the radio stations were told to stop playing her music. WTF is this all about? Freedom?
I don't listen to country western music but I will go out and buy her CD now.

Just watching CNN and a misile hit Kuwait city.
Could it be a misfire from the US?
Could the US have marched so fast to Bagdad that they went around critical targets only to have them regroup behind them?
Could the US have sent it into an empty shopping mall at 2AM local time (no casualties) in order to drum up more support for the war? A war that isn't going as easily as they had hoped?

[tracks914]

I read the Iraqi military is shooting other Iraqi's as they flee. Is this true ?

I read we bombed a market place. Is this true ? or did Saddam blow it up and blame it on us ?

I hate to say this but WAR IS HELL!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)
When fighting for your life you are bound to lose sight of good judgement, to winn at all cost.
What have some of them got to lose? They have watched their comrads slaughtered for questioning authority and don't want to face the same wrath. Just go back and read the first page of this post. Fear does motivate them and fear of humiliation and dying at the hands of their leaders is less honerable than killing civilians as a ru to help defeat the yankee intruders.

[Brad Roberts]

They now say it didnt hit the building. It landed in water next to the building. I was surprised about the Dixie Chicks boycott. It really really surprised me considering they are from North Texas and grew up in the area under the Bush's. We will see how their tour does when they reach the USA.

B

[tracks914]

They now say it didnt hit the building. It landed in water next to the building.

Still a good shot if you didn't want to kill anyone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fighting19.gif)

[jimtab]

Actually, the oil has been flowing from Iraq for several years, that is how they have been paying for things, the amount has been controlled by the UN, so much for that. If you all want to get to the root of the 911 terrorists, then we should be invading Saudi Arabia, but then we would have no oil for the suvs, if we want to kick ass on some country that has ignored the most un resolutions, lets start with Israel. And, last but not least, don't forget who put this Asshole Saddam and his buddies in business...It was us. We sold him the bulk of any WMDs that he may have(no real proof so far, sorry). Also, if you are young enough to have missed the Vietnam war read up on it. A bogus reason(gulf of tonkin "incicent"). We were there to stop communism, we did'nt, we lost, because we were trying for a political victory with a military tool...it doesn't work and I have several dead friends to prove it, as Andy said just because on opposes the war does not mean they are not "good Americans" or patriots. I think it wood behove some of you to get your information from someone besides CNN, MSN and the other self serving talking heads who frankly need to get off of W"s dick. Jim

[tracks914]

If you all want to get to the root of the 911 terrorists, then we should be invading Saudi Arabia, but then we would have no oil for the suvs, if we want to kick ass on some country that has ignored the most un resolutions, lets start with Israel.  

What nationality were the pilots on 9/11?
Afgan? NO
Iraqis? NO
Saudis? YES
But the US has an air base there, we can't piss them off, how would we defend Israel?
Why do we have to defend Israel? The US already sends them more than %50 of all foreign aid money, that's right, more $$$ to Israel than all other countries in the world combined.

By the way, this is a 914 site so I would just like to add that my restoration is coming along quite nicely!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)

[Brad Roberts]

I'm thinking about adding a temporay WAR ROOM to the Forums.

I just wanted to say this: I dont personally hold any of these comments or "statements" against anybody. We alll know that Andy hates American's. LOL


B

[tracks914]

We alll know that Andy hates American's. LOL

I don't know...deep down inside (like some of us) I think he just wants to be one.LOL (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[tracks914]

I'm thinking about adding a temporay WAR ROOM to the Forums.

Let's hope that it is just temporary and all the soldiers can come home soon.

[seanery]

The cost of the war?
$288 for each American. Where do I send the check? I'll send two if it helps!

Damn French....

[ChrisFoley]

I only read the first and last pages of this thread. I hope I didn't miss any thing important. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
My position on the war on Iraq is one of ambivalence. Since death is inevitable I can't get too worked up about any of this, people make choices which lead them to their final end. If Iraqis are given weapons and forced to use them, why don't they turn them on their oppressors? After all their life and the lives of their family are effectively over anyway once a fedayeen operative becomes involved.
Some very important literature related to this issue are two things by Michael Moore. You know, the guy who was booed at the Oscars for saying "Shame on you Mr. Bush." His documentary Bowling for Columbine goes a long way toward explaining the fascination that Americans have with guns (and any projectile weapon IMO). And the book Stupid White Men paints an unflattering picture of a good number of us. Mr. Moore is right on with a lot of his commentary. The cliche " I resemble that remark" comes to mind.
Desperate people resort to desperate measures, and one needs to examine the source of their desperation before passing judgement on them. That includes the al Qaeda terrorists. The fact that they choose America as their scapegoat has some validity.
Personally I dislike the favoritism that the US shows for Israel. I have long thought that the Jews choose (unconsciously) to be oppressed by those who surround them, just as the Germans choose to act like they are the master race.
914 content: I hope to paint my race car today.

[URY914]

My wife goes to the "General Hospital" website and that have a OT section where they talk about the war.
Now that would be something to read. Women from all over the world going on and and on about Luke, Laura and Saddam.

Now that would make for fun reading. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

914 content: Today I'm continuing to work on the f-glass hood and cowl piece. I have to add about 3/8" to one side of the hood to close the gap to the fender. I'm really getting tired of being a body work man. The garage is covered with bondo dust.