Type IV rebuild cost break down, literally, specifically... Options

[Gint]

I'd like to see where the $$$ are spent for a Type IV rebuild. Looking for a complete price break down listing of each of the individual parts (or group of parts, ie. pistons) , machining, labor (if necessary), etc...

Someone has to have done a complete listing of costs during their rebuild. But I've never seen one on this site.

[johannes]

You can do it from Raby's kit parts list.
You will almost reach the price of the kit minus the heads if you keep them stock.

[VaccaRabite]

I'd like to see where the $$$ are spent for a Type IV rebuild. Looking for a complete price break down listing of each of the individual parts (or group of parts, ie. pistons) , machining, labor (if necessary), etc...

Someone has to have done a complete listing of costs during their rebuild.

Off the top of my head, for a 2056 rebuild (and reusing some parts)
I am also counting fuel induction and exhaust as part of the engine build cost.

$2000 core 2056 engine with a butt ton of good parts (Mallory, 44 IDF carbs, CERAMIC LIFTERS, good heads, etc.)
$100 case machining (squaring droopy registers)
$80 cylinder boreout (I dropped one... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) )
$270 set of KB pistons/rings, balanced, from Jake
$40? main bearings
$50 seal kit
$25 adjustable push rod tool (from Jake - not needed, but VERY helpful)
$20 HF 1 inch dial indicator and mount
$100 lightened flywheel, tuna can, extra engine case, cam bearings (thanks Josh!)
$20 locktite case sealant
$trade push rods, mahle cylinder (the one that got bored out)
$700 Eurorace headers, turbo muffler
$60 two IDF rebuild kits (ebay)
$10 two phenolic gaskets.
$10 M8 threaded rod to make longer studs to use the thick gaskets.
$80 bead blasted clean all engine tin.
$16 engine paint for clean tin (rattle can)
$100 engine test stand (home built, componant cost only)

Theoretical total: $3681

Keep in mind, I am including things that others may not include for an "engine" rebuild. Either way, you have to do them, and an engine won't run w/o fuel and exhaust. I could have saved a little money if I had not been butterfingery with one of my cylinders. But I also looked for deals and made use of the 914world network instead of just going retail. Also, I did not have to have my heads done, and that saved me a TON of money. And, obviously, finding Evan and buying his 2056 was a godsend. The carbs, mallory, and lifters alone were worth what I paid for the whole engine.

Zach

[Gint]

You can do it from Raby's kit parts list.
You will almost reach the price of the kit minus the heads if you keep them stock.

I'm not looking to build a list from Raby's site. It wouldn't include machining and the "gotchas" etc...

I'm looking for actual experience, after the fact, this is what it all cost when it was all said and done. Kinda like what Zach listed there. Except I didn't see a cam listed.

Thanks! More please!

[VaccaRabite]

I'm looking for actual experience, after the fact, this is what it all cost when it was all said and done. Kinda like what Zach listed there. Except I didn't see a cam listed.

The core motor I bought had a webcam 494 grind cam in it already, in good shape. I saw no reason to rebuy.

Also, I am still dicking with the carbs. So, I would need to add the cost of re-jetting and new venturis.

zach

[brant]

Mike,

I'm sorry I didn't keep a list
I have a rough total though

I scrimped and reused things I shouldn't have
the first time, I reused my cam, pistons, cylinders
I did re-ring them, and have them honed

I also Fuch'd up by not having my rods rebuilt

my heads were $1,000 (stock rebuilt)
and with heads I had about $2500 into it

this second time I bought the cam kit for ? (was it $625?)
add the fact that I'm having the crank done, the rods rebuild, and a few more parts

if you don't count the items I'm buying twice
(2 gasket kits, 2 sets of bearings, 2 sets of rod nuts)

I'm thinking about $3,300 total with Zero labor
(even though there are many, many hours into washing, dissassembly, washing again)

this is a very stock 2.0 with a mild cam, but stock re-used pistons, low-ish compression, nothing fancy

brant

[Todd Enlund]

I'm keeping very detailed records, but I'm nowhere near done. I'm shopping for deals until I am ready to build. The engine will be 2258cc. What I have so far:

Used 78mm Crankshaft - $100.00
New Pushrod Tubes - $19.95
New Webcam #163 w/ gear - 76.01
Dual Valve Springs w/ retainers - $22.75
1.7 Rocker Arms - $40.00
2.0 core engine w/40 IDFs, 009 and SSI exchangers - $400.00

My Shopping list includes another estimated $1849.15 in parts, $150 in machine work, and $1200 for the heads. That's $3857.86.

My list includes:
96mm KB stroker pistons/cylinders/rings
H-Beam Rods
Main/Rod/Cam bearings
Lifters
Gasket Set
Front and Rear oil seals
Dizzy drive gear
Chromoly pushrods
HD Rocker shafts w/ solid spacers
swivel foot valve adjusters and nuts
Oil galley plugs
Cam plug
dowel pins
woodruff key
Cylinder shims
Pushrod tube shims
2x IDF rebuild kits
Sachs disk/pressure plate
Cap/rotor/points/wires

And leaves me with a 2.0 crank and rods that I can sell off. I'm sure that I'll spend a few more bucks here and there on miscellaneous stuff or additional machine work, and I'd like to get something better than the 009 dizzy, but my target is carbs to muffler for $4K. When I get the crank magnafluxed, if it is bad, that will blow my budget. I think it will only cost me another ~$350 though, because I'll then buy a new crank that will eliminate the need for grinding, and it will have type 1 journals so the rods will be $100 cheaper.

And I still have about 5 months to shop for parts deals that could save me more $.

I'd be glad to give you an update when I'm done (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I think you'll find different people's costs vary widely depending on what they did. A $5k Raby kit, a $300 bearing and ring job, or something in between.

[carr914]

rdauerhaer(spelling?) has one for sale in the classifieds for $9,000. Spells out what went into it.

[914werke]

Thanks for the Plug (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

But ..thats a complete drivetrain + extras.
If you follow one of those links it will take you to McMarks (updated?)
build page in which he provides a very detailed list of his kits components.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

The thing is everyone focuses on the hard parts cost but when youve spent
that kind of money on an *new* engine its false economy to slap on old components like lines induction and electronic bits.

Im guessing most folks end up with Carbs so perhaps Im off the mark. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Todd Enlund]

Im guessing most folks end up with Carbs so perhaps Im off the mark. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I plan on starting with carbs, because they are way cheaper for my application than a custom EFI system. Later, I would like to experiment with EFI... but that will likely be years down the road.

[Gint]

I think you'll find different people's costs vary widely depending on what they did. A $5k Raby kit, a $300 bearing and ring job, or something in between.

I understand that. Actually that's partly what I hope the result of this thread will reveal. I have a fair sized pile of used parts and if I get a complete enough list of prices for parts and labor for machining operations etc... I can figure out what I want to use new and used and get a ball park figure of what it might cost me to put something together. This will help me determine my direction. And that direction could still end up being a water cooled motor, but that's a thread for another day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

There are enough anal retentive people on this board that there have to be itemized engine build parts/costs lists out there.

Keep 'em comin and thanks!

[brer]

heads- 600
crank and rods rebuilt - 280
case machine work- 150
bearings- 75
KB Pistons- 200
rings- 50
cylinders- 0
boring cylinders- 125
cyinder shims- 20
cromo pushrods- 80 (2 sets)
911 swivel feet- 80
rocker shims- 25
gasket kit- 40
main seals- 25
crank gears- 60
misc hardware and sealants- 100
flywheel- 60
balancing- 125
springs retainers- 80
cam lifters- 275 (i think)

powder coat- 150
ss heat exchangers- 200
exhaust- 325
intake system custom and still not finished- 700+

$2500 +/- not including time and fuel.

stock, with stock intake and exhaust would have been around $1750.00

also, new clutch and pressure and throwout- 175
cleaning ect. done by myself.

[r_towle]

Stock 2.0 liter.
1800.00

Rich

[Jake Raby]

You can do it from Raby's kit parts list.
You will almost reach the price of the kit minus the heads if you keep them stock.

I'm not looking to build a list from Raby's site. It wouldn't include machining and the "gotchas" etc...

I'm looking for actual experience, after the fact, this is what it all cost when it was all said and done. Kinda like what Zach listed there. Except I didn't see a cam listed.

Thanks! More please!

With my kit = prep service there is no machine work cost- its all included along with the"gotchas".

According to the level of what you build, most people will spend 3K to get close to a properly outfitted engine that choose to buy parts without a kit. At that most engines aren't balanced and heads aren't thoroughly rebuilt with new seats properly installed and updated.

There are two parts you do not skimp on:
Cylinder heads
valve train/ camshaft.
Skimp on either of these and you'll blow your money away.

The brand new CNC produced cylinder heads are almost 1/2 the cost of my engine kits- they have to be.

[Gint]

If I end up doing this it would appear that The Type IV Store "Basic valvetrain upgrade 8000" would be the way to go.

but...

I'm not looking to be told or advised what to use or do at this point. I'm not looking for a "kit" commercial or a total price only, or...

I'm looking for an itemized list of rebuild costs based on individual's experience after doing a Type IV rebuild like post #3 and #12. Thanks!

[r_towle]

here is your spreadsheet for parts, go price these out to see for yourself.
Jake tends to be very competitive in his parts prices.

Engine Gasket set
Crankshaft main bearings
Front oil seal
rear oil seal
Camshaft bearings
Camshaft seal
Rod bearings
Rod bolts and nuts (new)
Pistons and cylinders
Camshaft
Lifters
Rocker arm adjusters
(optional custom push rods)
Piston rings
2 cases of oil
4 oil filters

Now, machine work etc.
You can choose to do or not do these items, so the cost is optional and its based upon your judgement, sac size, and current available funds.

Casework
Complete blueprint of case including line bore and register facing.
Drill and tap oil galley plugs

Rod work
recondition rods, machine shop work.

Head work
Clean them with easy off oven cleaner, four times in the chamber.
Clean them immediately with Borax for get rid of the black residue from the easy off.
Take ink and wipe the chamber (use white or red or pink ink) and let the ink seap into any possible crack...then wipe clean.

Take hig resolution pictures, call LEN, email the pictures..do what he says...he is reasonably priced and will only do what you need/want.
He will stay in your budget.

Given all of that.
Get a set of calipers and read the manual...if the current parts are within spec, use them again.

re-using pistons is quite acceptable no matter who says you cant.
If they are in spec (see the manual for the numbers) then you can use them..
every other motor re-uses pistons...we can and do.
They MUST be big enough and in spec.
Get the FACTORY manual for the motor.
read what they tell you (the manufacturer) you can do with used parts...valves, springs, keepers etc etc etc.
I will repeat so you read between the lines...
Get the FACTORY manual and read it...
You will learn what you can do.

Camshaft...that is your call, your judgement...it is matched with the lifters so they come in a set.
I have done it with both new and used...they all still run...BUT...you need to check the camshaft and lifters....are they in spec??
Rarely are they in spec...I got lucky a few times...most are burned and the hardness has been worn away (discoloration on the lobes) and once that starts...you aree now gonna grind either the lifter or the camshaft...or both very quickly.
You can save money on the gear by removing that yourself and bolting it to the new camshaft...

Heads are heads...they are probably cracked..if not use them.
1.7 and 1.8 heads can survive alot of abuse..
Minimum guaranteed need is valve guides and a valve job..that is minimum.
the ink will tell you...dont ignore it...it sucks to replace a single pistons and a head for being cheap...and that is what happens.

Rich

[Gint]

Still looking for itemized lists of rebuild costs. Here's a weekday (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif)

[Joe Ricard]

I don't understand your bump.

I am pretty sure several examples have been posted.

2500.00 minimum to 4000.00 cutting no corners.

increase in performance varies significantly per dollar.
My engine from carb filter to tail pipe? about 10K +/- a few hundred.

[Gint]

Because I'd like more than 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) complete, itemized lists of costs.

[brer]

I'm cleaning a case now for another motor.
I'll give you another one when its done.


I'd like to add that the only area I could have spend more money was P/C's
everything else was machined and race balanced properly, including zero decking the case and galley plugs.

It would be a mistake to think that 2500 means alot of corners were cut,
the reality is that sharp buyers can get great deals from members or ebay that will help keep costs down.