Custom Exhaust, just want to see what people have done Options

[Chris Hamilton]

I like the sound of the supertrapp, 1.) does the different ID for the tube affect the supertrapp at all or 2.) is that just for different exhaust setups, some with larger tubes other with smaller tubes? I figured it was the second one, but might as well ask.

I think i might buy a super trapp and work on getting the headers from the 4-1 setup.

They just offer different sizes according to what your exhaust system looks like. I think they recommend you use different size plates for different horsepower engines.

I'm using this muffler on both my honda and 914 http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...mp;autoview=sku

With the honda I'm running 3 plates and it's nearly as quiet as the stock muffler the car came with. On the 914 I'm running 4 plates, and you can hardly hear the exhaust over my 40mm dellortos. I originally started with 6 plates in each car, and removing plates just kept increasing torque quite nicely.

I'm sure you'll be able to find the right combination according to what you plan to use the car for. My car has a stock cam and nicely ported heads, so it seems to like a bit of backpressure. Going from 6 plates to 4 seemed to improve the torque, but it still has pretty good top end up to the rev limiter ( 7,000 ).

[turnaround89]

I been doing some reading about designing headers and looked at a bunch of pictures to help me out, now here comes my question. Is this what a set of headers should look like for a 914, if not can anyone send me a pic of 914 headers? Sorry for taking the picture from someone classified, hope the person doesn't mind, if you do i have no problem taking it off. Thanks everybody!!

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-643-1227467865.jpg)

[r_towle]

Those are the 75/76 stub pipes that attach to the HE made specifically for those years.

I will find a few pics so you can see what a Header is.

RIch

[r_towle]

Here is Paragon products complete system.
This is a basic and well tested 4 into 1 (4-1) system.
The muffler is a simple hush thrush eight cylinder muffler with a custom tailipipe to fit through the lower rear valance.
The megaphone (cone shaped piece on the right of the muffler) would be bolted on to replace the muffler to make it really loud...

This system comes with stub pipes...the little short pipes that are in the top left of the photo.
the stub pipes bolt to the head, then the header bolts to the stub pipes.
The stub pipes make it alot easier to remove and replace the header and not disturb the head studs...which tend to come loose if you mess with them to many times.

Rich

[LarryR]

Say i actually am able to make my own exhaust system, who makes a good muffler. I don't want the thing to be loud, but i do want to be able to hear the engine. Right now the sound is perfect, could i just reuse the muffler thats on the car and make my headers go into that muffler? How do i go about picking the right muffler for my exhaust setup? What brand would you guys suggest to buy from?

I am not sure how well they would work on a 914 but the dyno max and flow master worked well on mustangs I have built in the past.

[r_towle]

This is the Tangerine Racing (CFR) Chris Foley header.
The is the 4-2-1 header which scavanges better than the 4-1 header.

This systems also uses stub pipes (see a trend there)

Rich

[LarryR]

Here is Paragon products complete system.
This is a basic and well tested 4 into 1 (4-1) system.
The muffler is a simple hush thrush eight cylinder muffler with a custom tailipipe to fit through the lower rear valance.
The megaphone (cone shaped piece on the right of the muffler) would be bolted on to replace the muffler to make it really loud...

This system comes with stub pipes...the little short pipes that are in the top left of the photo.
the stub pipes bolt to the head, then the header bolts to the stub pipes.
The stub pipes make it alot easier to remove and replace the header and not disturb the head studs...which tend to come loose if you mess with them to many times.

Rich

Wow not bad and their price is pretty reasonable too at 669 bucks

[r_towle]

Now,
The primaries are all bent all over the place to ensure they are the same length, and they fit under the car.

That is what is meant by matching primaries...notice they are different lengths in both systems and they are merging differently...

That is all the R&D these guys have done on Dynos to test their individual theories...

The 4-1 performs in one range and the 4-2-1 performs all accross the range...there are pluses and minuses to both systems and two schools that will line up on both sides of that arguement.

These are the TWO headers available for the 914. There are other 4-1 systems available by different manufacturers, but the basic design is the same and the end results are the same.

Rich

[r_towle]

Finally,
here are the Tangerine racing (CFR) Chris Foley Stub pipes.

Rich

[LarryR]

That tangerine system is pretty sweet. However, how many horsepower do you imagine that the extra 1700 in cost gets you? It just seems like the 1700 extra for the tangerine system could be better spent on other things... Unless you are racing competitively and in a specific class where even 2 or 3 hp can make a difference.

I could be wrong and I am sure someone will chime in but I always try to look at cost/benefit and alternatives.

[Joe Ricard]

I bought my Tangerine back when I had a hopped up 2.0L with the intent on building mre power in the future. The 2.0L woke up and made great power.
the 2098cc was even more. and the header handled the power well.
the 2316-210 demands a 1 5/8" tangerine or bigger. So I am very happy with my 1700.00 purchase 3+ years ago.

I also have a Euro Race that will now due service on my 2098 in the track car.

[LarryR]

I bought my Tangerine back when I had a hopped up 2.0L with the intent on building mre power in the future. The 2.0L woke up and made great power.
the 2098cc was even more. and the header handled the power well.
the 2316-210 demands a 1 5/8" tangerine or bigger. So I am very happy with my 1700.00 purchase 3+ years ago.

I also have a Euro Race that will now due service on my 2098 in the track car.

Hey Joe,

Was that wake up from stock or another aftermarket exhaust?

Larry

[turnaround89]

Ok, now i got it, however i was also reading about the radius of the bends and how that can affect performance. Some people said that the longer the radius of the bend, the better and easier the flow of exhaust gas out. Looking at all the exhausts designed for the 914 they have a lot of sharp bends. Should i make my exhaust around the idea of making all the tubes being the same length with tight bends or worry more about getting larger bends in the exhaust for better gas flow?

[ChrisFoley]

Should i make my exhaust around the idea of making all the tubes being the same length with tight bends or worry more about getting larger bends in the exhaust for better gas flow?

Yes! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Every system designer makes compromises. The ones you make will be based on your abilities, the materials you buy, and the people you have helping you.

[turnaround89]

Alright, that makes sense. Where is the easiest place to find the tubing i will need, do muffler shops sell the stuff or will i have to order it from somewhere?

That should be the last question until i start actually building the exhaust system! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif)

[biggy72]

I like using spd exhaust. They are relatively inexpensive and I like getting J bends because they have quite a bit of straight pipe on each bend along with the entire 180 degree bend.

I haven't had much time lately to look up the websites I used to design our exhaust on the formula car, but unlike what Jake said your ideal primary length will depend on lots of things like bore, stroke, cam duration, tubing diameter, 4-1 or 4-2-1 header, and how you want your power band to react.

As far as construction goes just try to make all of the transitions as smooth as possible. Whenever welding the pipes together try to clean the insides out as best as possible. The easiest way to start the exhaust would be to cut the flanges off of an old set of heat exchangers. I made all of the parts for the formula car, but we had a lathe to make all of the parts.

[Joe Ricard]

I bought my Tangerine back when I had a hopped up 2.0L with the intent on building mre power in the future. The 2.0L woke up and made great power.
the 2098cc was even more. and the header handled the power well.
the 2316-210 demands a 1 5/8" tangerine or bigger. So I am very happy with my 1700.00 purchase 3+ years ago.

I also have a Euro Race that will now due service on my 2098 in the track car.

Hey Joe,

Was that wake up from stock or another aftermarket exhaust?

Larry

Had SSI and Bursch prior to Tangerine. oh heck yea big difference. My co-driver at the time asked if I put a new motor in it.

[LarryR]

Had SSI and Bursch prior to Tangerine. oh heck yea big difference. My co-driver at the time asked if I put a new motor in it.

Cool, anyone have some dyno results with and without these headers. The one thing I really miss about the american car scene is the hot rod / car craft (yea this probably lets you know I am an old fart b/c I dont even see these around much any more) engine build up articles and the compare and contrast with available options.

It sure would be cool if Excellence or grass roots would do those kind of articles...

a 914 2.0 with X, Y, and Z exhaust. It sure does help to justify expenditures when you can see the results before you buy the idea.

Larry

[DTMLGND]

Here is Paragon products complete system.
This is a basic and well tested 4 into 1 (4-1) system.
The muffler is a simple hush thrush eight cylinder muffler with a custom tailipipe to fit through the lower rear valance.
The megaphone (cone shaped piece on the right of the muffler) would be bolted on to replace the muffler to make it really loud...

This system comes with stub pipes...the little short pipes that are in the top left of the photo.
the stub pipes bolt to the head, then the header bolts to the stub pipes.
The stub pipes make it alot easier to remove and replace the header and not disturb the head studs...which tend to come loose if you mess with them to many times.

Rich

I have this on my new acquisition! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I am excited to get it started and hear this exhaust system.

[worn]

Find yourself some used stainless heat exchangers for 300 or so and be done with it. No rust, never paint. Get a bursch muffler. This is what many people here run. PM me if interested I have a friend that has a pair of these stainless that are made for the 1.7/1.8. I don't know what he wants for them , but I bet it would be in that 300-350 range.

But what kind of fun is that? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) don’t let em discourage you. It isn’t as though you don’t know what the easy route is.