 More Power, And how to get it. |
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| jd74914 |
 Feb 16 2004, 06:25 PM
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#1
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Its alive  Group: Members Posts: 4,780 Joined: 16-February 04 From: CT Member No.: 1,659 Region Association: North East States  |
Help. I've got my 914 running, but I feel that it needs alot more power. I mean, it handles great in the twisties, but doesn't seem have enough power for the straights (or the stoplights).
Does anyone have any suggestions to drag more power out of my 1.8L. I'm looking for about 140hp without swapping the engine. Has anyone out there tried pulling this much power out of their 'fourteen and if so how did you do it? Any help or suggestions or even ideas that you could provide would be greatfully appriciated. Thanks. P.S. I want a dependable engine that I can use as a daily driver that won't need to be rebuilt every 10,000 miles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| DuckRyder |
Feb 16 2004, 06:29 PM
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#2
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Avatars Mode: OFF because of the recalcitrant few. Group: Benefactors Posts: 767 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Georgia Member No.: 110  |
I'd say you need to talk to jake.
Short of turbo charging, and we all know you can't turbo a 914, a big 4 or six is about the only way I see making that kind of power. BTW, what happened to my avatar darn it? |
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| jd74914 |
Feb 16 2004, 06:35 PM
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#3
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Its alive Group: Members Posts: 4,780 Joined: 16-February 04 From: CT Member No.: 1,659 Region Association: North East States |
Who is jake? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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| ArtechnikA |
Feb 16 2004, 06:41 PM
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#4
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 16 2004, 04:25 PM) Does anyone have any suggestions to drag more power out of my 1.8L. I'm looking for about 140hp without swapping the engine. Has anyone out there tried pulling this much power out of their 'fourteen and if so how did you do it? P.S. I want a dependable engine that I can use as a daily driver that won't need to be rebuilt every 10,000 miles. everyone has tried it. you can get that kind of power from a 1,8 with Webers, a suitable cam, and a 7500 rpm redline. you might get 10,001 miles. less is more likely. there are no simple bolt-ons... |
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| tat2dphreak |
Feb 16 2004, 06:44 PM
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#5
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stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Jake is the man you want to talk with... 'cept 140 is child's play to him now... 200+ can be done!
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| SirAndy |
Feb 16 2004, 06:46 PM
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#6
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,623 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 16 2004, 04:25 PM) 1) I'm looking for about 140hp without swapping the engine. 2) I want a dependable engine that I can use as a daily driver that won't need to be rebuilt every 10,000 miles. i believe that is what you guys call a oxymoron (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) i know rich bontempi gets 180hp out of his 1.8 racing engine. "dependable" is not a word i would use in conjunction with that engine. you won't get a "reliable, dependable, maintenance free, 140hp 1.8L daily driver" ... if you want to get into the 140HP range AND have a reliable engine you need to look into something that puts out that kind of HP in stock configuration, which pretty much leaves you with a /6 conversion OR spend BIG $$$ for a highly modified (bigger than 1.8L) /4. the above mentioned Jake Raby (who's a member of this board) builds those BIG Type IV engines ... http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/Home_Page.htm Andy |
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| 914ghost |
Feb 16 2004, 06:52 PM
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#7
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BOB Group: Members Posts: 406 Joined: 25-November 03 From: Wenatchee Washington Member No.: 1,387 |
well...hmm...
I think if you get 140hp out of your engine it wont be a 1.8 anymore. Essentially you'll have to swap everything but the case from what I know. Might as well swap your engine. 2.0's had about 100 hp stock, and its pretty easy to go up from there, seems like 140 reliable HP is pretty optimistic without BIG $$$ spent though. If you had a 2.0 to begin with and like $1200 and did the work all yourself you could prolly reach 140. But.. . . |
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| DuckRyder |
Feb 16 2004, 07:01 PM
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#8
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Avatars Mode: OFF because of the recalcitrant few. Group: Benefactors Posts: 767 Joined: 8-January 03 From: Georgia Member No.: 110 |
QUOTE(914ghost @ Feb 16 2004, 08:52 PM) If you had a 2.0 to begin with and like $1200 and did the work all yourself you could prolly reach 140. But.. . . I got more than 1200 in parts for a 2.0 stock rebuild. IMHO its going to take 1200 minimum into the heads alone to make that kind of honest power. I also don't see it happening with D-Jet, so carbs or aftermarket injection. |
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| SirAndy |
Feb 16 2004, 07:07 PM
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#9
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,623 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
if you want to keep your 1.8L, get a more agressive cam and dual carbs ... remove all the not needed smog crap, get nice big headers and you will be in the 90/100 hp range.
remove all un-needed weight and you should feel a significant difference. if you're new to 914's i suggest you get some seattime with the stock 1.8L your local AX or TT ... you WILL BE amazed what you can do with a stock 1.8! i run a stock 1.8L with D-Jet injection (sans the smog-crap) and i have NO problem pulling 96.45% of the cars around here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (i'm estimating a optimistic 85hp) i frequently "race" with my buddy (he has a ferrari 328) and he's always surprised how well i can keep up. and as soon as we get to the twisties, i'm glued to his rear-bumper! mo HP is certainly nice, but be prepared to bring wads of cash ... Andy |
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| jd74914 |
Feb 16 2004, 07:17 PM
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#10
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Its alive Group: Members Posts: 4,780 Joined: 16-February 04 From: CT Member No.: 1,659 Region Association: North East States |
What would you guys recommend for new cams? What kind of carbs would be needed, and would SSI headers and a high flow muffler work as a good header/muffler combo? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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| nebreitling |
Feb 16 2004, 07:35 PM
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#11
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Member Emeritus Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-March 03 From: San Francisco Member No.: 478 |
SSI's and a Bursch will help. but we're probably only talking a few hp. a Tangerine header may give slightly more power still, though a bigger engine is needed to really take advantage of it. a K&N filter MAY be good for another 1 or 2 hp, but that's getting to be pretty negligible. Carbs and a hot cam (google: webcam) may spice things up a little, although if you were going to do the cam you IMHO might as well freshen the whole engine and build a 2056 (110+hp) or 2270 (140?). expect expensive headwork for high power; bring some $$.
or just enjoy it in the twisties, that's my philosophy.. |
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| anthony |
Feb 16 2004, 07:41 PM
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#12
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2270 club Group: Benefactors Posts: 3,107 Joined: 1-February 03 From: SF Bay Area, CA Member No.: 218 |
I wouldn't recommend new cams on your current engine. What are you going to do - spend $1000+ for cams, lifters, and carbs, split the engine and end up with +10hp?
With a better exhaust system (SSIs + bursch for example) you might free up 5hp. Is that worth $500? |
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| SirAndy |
Feb 16 2004, 08:05 PM
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#13
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,623 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(jd74914 @ Feb 16 2004, 05:17 PM) What would you guys recommend for new cams? What kind of carbs would be needed, and would SSI headers and a high flow muffler work as a good header/muffler combo? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) get the 2.0L SSI HE (bigger diameter) and a agressive webcam ... the 86 series comes to mind. ask "seanery" about his setup ... Andy |
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| VegasRacer |
Feb 16 2004, 08:07 PM
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#14
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ELVIRA Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,501 Joined: 27-March 03 From: Between Scylla and Charybdis Member No.: 481 Region Association: None
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The secret to enjoying life is to be found in this thread.
"Learn to enjoy what you have Grasshopper." Seriously; You can throw money at your car and end up with a warmend over motor that will not make you happy. If you currently have a good running, reliable one - enjoy it. If you really want more power - go for it. Don't be half assed. Do it right. P.S. The cheapest way to fell like you have more power is to lose weight. If you are willing to gut your car and drop 300 lbs it will be faster. |
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| ArtechnikA |
Feb 16 2004, 08:09 PM
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#15
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(tat2dphreak @ Feb 16 2004, 04:44 PM) ... 200+ can be done! read the original requirements - no engine swap. 200 can't be done on 1,8 liters as we know them ... (forced induction is another matter. this is no simple matter either.) |
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| Jake Raby |
Feb 16 2004, 08:15 PM
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#16
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
I have made 180 out of a 13:1 1800cc engine..
Run it till it explodes and wastes everything... Then call me, I'll build a 2270- you install it- drive it away and out run most anything on the road... There is no replacement for ccs, if done right... Smootehr running and a better idle, even better fuel mileage- AND MORE POWER! |
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| iamchappy |
Feb 16 2004, 08:16 PM
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#17
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It all happens so fast! Group: Members Posts: 4,893 Joined: 5-November 03 From: minnetonka, mn Member No.: 1,315 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I think it all depends on what kind of performance you are looking for, you might want to hook up with someone who already has a big 4 or six and make your judgement from that. This is coming from someone who started with a stock 2.0 pumped it up to a 2100 pumped it up from there to a 2.9. Now I run a 3.0 six which is being pumped up another 100hp or more with a turbo. There is no end to this madness (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) your just getting started.
Good luck |
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| SirAndy |
Feb 16 2004, 08:16 PM
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#18
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,623 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(ArtechnikA @ Feb 16 2004, 06:09 PM) 200 can't be done on 1,8 liters as we know them ... (forced induction is another matter. this is no simple matter either.) yupp, conventional wisdom says you can get about 10HP per 100cc out of a normally aspirated T4 ... 1800cc = 180HP BUT, that won't be a reliable engine by any means. now, if you would be interested in putting a turbo on it ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Andy |
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| Jake Raby |
Feb 16 2004, 08:19 PM
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#19
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
Its reliable for a season at 7,000 RPM... BUT the engine doesn't make power till 5200 RPM
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| jd74914 |
Feb 16 2004, 08:22 PM
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#20
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Its alive Group: Members Posts: 4,780 Joined: 16-February 04 From: CT Member No.: 1,659 Region Association: North East States |
Guys, anyone know how much a turbo would run ($$), and how much power could be added with one. Has anyone actually turboed a 914 and what does the project entail. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/calvin.gif)
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