My next car, GT40 Options

[Randal]

We had lunch today at the local Houfbrau in Redwood City.

Right across the street is a new auto dealer that is selling the GT 40's made in South Africa. They had GT 40's, Daytona Cobras as well as normal Cobras in stock.

I went over there with my mechanical genius friend Paul, who really does know what he is doing, and we were both very very impressed.

They had 5 GT 40's in stock. These cars are being build under license from whoever (Ford I guess) using the original designs, but updated for all new things, like brakes, etc.

These SuperPerformance cars are simly beautiful, where ever you look. And at $75,000 for a roller an absoulte steal.

All you have to do is put in a motor and transmission and your away.

After you see one of these cars, you will never use the word "kit car" again.

I got to build one of these with an all aluminum 427 with about 600hp.

Probably a good hillclimb car at only 2200#'s.

Those aluminum 427's weigh less than 400# and can put out 575hp or more.

Big slicks, 2200#, 600HP, mid engine with great brakes and suspension. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[J P Stein]

Yeah, a ZL-1 motor would be perfect & period correct. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Speaking of Cobras, check this out.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/video_...html?vid=270952

[Joe Ricard]

When I grow up I am going to get one.

[Randal]

When I grow up I am going to get one.

Think this one would fit?

[URY914]

I want a black one with white stripe the roof bubble just like the LeMans winner.

Lotto, lotto, lotto....

[PeeGreen 914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

[koozy]

I ran across a "New" one at a car show I shot last year at the Cow Palace. It had carbon fiber this, titanium that, leather and lace... To quote JP "Purdy sum bitch".

[championgt1]

This one was at Portland Int. Raceway last summer. I was very impressed by the fit and finish of the car. It was very nice.

[Randal]

This one was at Portland Int. Raceway last summer. I was very impressed by the fit and finish of the car. It was very nice.

Are those Hoosier slicks on there?

[byndbad914]

...I got to build one of these with an all aluminum 427 with about 600hp...

unless you are hell bent to stay with the FE design (not the GM like JP recommends hahahha - too funny - my friend is building a 68 Camaro for a guy right now with the ZL1 tribute engine that came out a year or so ago) I would say buy a 351W Motorsports alum block or similar aftermarket block, 4.125" bore with 4" stroke = 427ci Windsor and with the great aftermarket heads for them, etc you can make 600HP with a hyd roller pretty easy. I built a ton of 4.125"-4.185" bore/4.250" stroke engines for Pantera guys (454-468ci) with C302B heads, etc a few years back now and with a street solid roller would vault 600HP with ease and a few 427 Windsors for Superformance GT40s and Cobra kits.

[Randal]

...I got to build one of these with an all aluminum 427 with about 600hp...

unless you are hell bent to stay with the FE design (not the GM like JP recommends hahahha - too funny - my friend is building a 68 Camaro for a guy right now with the ZL1 tribute engine that came out a year or so ago) I would say buy a 351W Motorsports alum block or similar aftermarket block, 4.125" bore with 4" stroke = 427ci Windsor and with the great aftermarket heads for them, etc you can make 600HP with a hyd roller pretty easy. I built a ton of 4.125"-4.185" bore/4.250" stroke engines for Pantera guys (454-468ci) with C302B heads, etc a few years back now and with a street solid roller would vault 600HP with ease and a few 427 Windsors for Superformance GT40s and Cobra kits.

So what would it take to put one together?

BTW after going through all the PITA stuff to build a solid type 4 with aftermarket fuel injection that is exactly what I would do with any high performance V-8. Fuel injection is so nice... and those TWM throttle bodies look pretty good as well.

What do you think about boosting one of those 351's? ...

[byndbad914]

that will depend highly on parts choices and usage desires - you want a streetable car that you can track here and there, or a track engine? The track engine would make more than 600HP easily but could be detuned down to that with the cam selection.

To make around 600HP with a "streetable" you could use the CHI heads out of Australia (bitchin' heads and have won the Engine Masters Challenge a few years now on Fords around 400-430ci) and their single plane intake, a decent sized hyd roller camshaft (around 250 at 0.050" duration, large ratio rockers to get lift up around 0.800"), 4" stroke crank - the mo' betta' (lighter especially) the mo' $$, quality H-beam rod (or I-beam for more power or lighter weight), custom piston for compression desire/valve lift, so forth. Start looking at Crower cranks and rods, etc it gets pricey.

A good race engine would be the Crower or similar quality crank, the light/strong I-beam rods, solid roller with around 265/275deg @ 0.050", ti valves on the intakes, etc but should be around 750-800HP. Bryant cranks are very light for instance but big bucks... I had guys spend close to $5K on Bryant cranks for serious circle track engines I built.

I would guess around $15-17K for the 600HP combo with a dry sump (alum blocks typically are set up for that only) and more like $20K with the full race, but it has been awhile since I priced all that stuff. The alum block is spendy and comes completely "raw" so has to be fully machined. I would also bush the lifter bores. The alum block may always require roller cam bearings as well (I am not sure but I think there are blocks with standard cam bores - I always used roller cam bearing in the high end combos)

If you go with an aftermarket iron block you can save a little cash on not bushing lifter bores, cheaper base price.

edit - missed where you asked about the other stuff... I had one Pantera guy with a full Motec setup and it was nice, but again, spendy but just like a Porsche with Motec. Other options exist of course and are nice/cheaper. As for boost, that is no problem, built more than a few of that type of combo for twin turbo Panteras.

edit2 - compare this stuff to the price of a well built -6 Porsche engine and you will find you make plenty more HP, reliably, for less $.

[J P Stein]

All fooling aside, Dove Engineering does make an all aluminum side oiler 427.
I would guess it falls into the "not cheep" catagory. I'm sure they've worked out the problems that came with the old engine. Building a high strung 600 hp small block is not the way I'd go.....KISS. I'm a "build it, drive" it kinda guy.
That said, you don't wanna build a sheep in wolf's clothing either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[byndbad914]

...Building a high strung 600 hp small block is not the way I'd go.....KISS. I'm a "build it, drive" it kinda guy...

The 600HP 427 is not high strung by any means, trust me - that is 1.4HP/cube. I could get drunk, pass out, wake up in a stupor and build 1.4HP/cube in a Windsor combo. I built a ton of those larger stroke Windsor combos with big heads and hyd roller cams for Panteras all over SoCal. The Saleen S7 engine was a stroked Windsor combo with a pretty tame hyd roller cam made 550HP. New Z06 engines with a little porting to the stock heads and a bigger hyd roller will churn 600HP easy below 7K and there are 700HP hyd roller LS7s out there now that are spinning to just over 7K.

If someone gave me a Dove FE I would sell it for $$ to build the Windsor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The FE is for those that want a purist-ish vehicle with the side oiler, the serious guys build stroked Windsors.

Go with a solid roller and 750HP is pretty straight forward up around 7500rpm but with bigger solid roller cams come periodic maintenance of lifter swaps.

[Brett W]

Motor is the easy part. Transmission is the biggest issue. It will cost more than the motor.

[byndbad914]

RBTs are pricey... I would consider the new Mendeola SDR transaxle but would be limited to 5spd... which is plenty given the torque beast a 427W would be. Only need the 6spd if you expect to clear 170mph at some point IMHO.

The Mendy sequential box would be good for an all out racer and less than an all alum dry sump engine - my 4spd is good to probably 750 ft-lbs of torque, but is not street friendly (noisy and shift quickly but noisy) and the 5spd would be a bit less capacity. The SDR is a full synchro box but might not be capable of big torque a full race engine would make.

[grantsfo]

One of my favorite cars! I saw the new ones when they were first introduced at a show in Monterey. I picked up about 20 glossy high quality GT40 brochures and packed them away.

I think biggest thrill ever was when I cuaght a vintage GT40 on the track in my 914-6 and passed him coming out of 2. Then had conversation with driver later. He was blown away at how fast 914 was in the turns. But when opened up V8 on the straights it was hilarious to watch him run away.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Feb 4 2009, 02:36 PM

[byndbad914]

the kits can be really nice, I rode in one with one of my engines and it was sweet blasting down the 55 fwy in SoCal in a GT40 with around 800HP (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I was surprised to notice how well it sealed up - not really noisy like you would expect from a kit.

you know Randal... if you really want to have some fun you could build my next project engine - a Hemi -headed 572 cube Boss 429 clone! I figure with a solid tappet cam I will easily get 750HP/650-700 ft-lbs with a 7K redline. Will make a nice daily driver (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

I will be parting out the 914 in the next few years minus hitting a lotto (should start buying tickets hahahha) and using the dry sump, cooling system, Mendeola, etc with that motor (and a BIG reason why I went with such a mongo tranny in the teener) - I will build a rear transaxle 1969 or 1970 Boss 572 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) with about an 8-10" engine set back. The trans needs to be good for up to 750 ft-lbs in case I decide to run a street roller. The compression will be around 11.5:1 and run on E85.

I built a 600-inch BBF for a guy (4.5" stroke instead of 4.3" stroke like the 572) and made right at 950HP with a decent but not huge roller and 11.5:1 compression. Not hemi headed tho'... that would have made over 1K.

Biting the $5K bullet just for aftermarket Hemi bare castings is tough but Jon Kaase (big time engine builder - God among men sorta dude) swears the Hemi head is worth around 100HP over many of the big time raised port race heads and pretty much any combo from 600-900HP and has proven it with his own casting.

[Brett W]

Why not just use the T56 from the Vette? It can be beefed up to handle decent power and it was designed as a rear mount transaxle to begin with.

Then you can transfer the 914 drive train into a GT40 and have both cars.

[byndbad914]

Why not just use the T56 from the Vette? It can be beefed up to handle decent power and it was designed as a rear mount transaxle to begin with.

Then you can transfer the 914 drive train into a GT40 and have both cars.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hijacked.gif) The Vette is bass-ackwards - the trans is in front of the diff. I want the diff in front of the trans, and the S4 is sequential of course. I intend to set the engine way back in the Mustang, extend the dash a bit but essentially make the interior look like a stock interior with a fold down rear seat. Hide all the goodies (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Current concept has 315 fronts and 335 rears so the tires will take away some of the sleeper look (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I considered the Vette trans as I intend to use Vette uprights, etc for the drivetrain with custom tubular SLA susp when I first considered the combo but no rear seat then... want the rear seat/stockish interior look with a simple cage at most that is mostly covered by the headliner (will fit the cage to the roof tight, cut the roof off to weld it all up, replace roof).

I gots plans man! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) we'll see if it ever materializes.

It will be cake to remove the bell from the S4 and run a driveshaft between a clutch at the engine and the rear diff (has a Hemi input shaft - really standard spline for racing) - just get a custom alum or CF driveshaft that is WELL balanced of course.

edit - for grins... see the bottom of the page for the 436-inch Boss http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com/compo...ngine-sale.html