'Cooling flaps' in top of engine tin, Cable activated? How do these function? Options

[tat2dphreak]

If you run them OPEN what would the consequences be of not running them at all??

the air will not be directed properly, but you can modify and put in other pieces of tin to make them work, but you have to fab this. they not only act as an open/shutoff, they act as an air re-director. my new engine had new air pieces fabbed to re-direct the air without using the flaps.

Are these thermostats still available?

no, but I have heard of people using a similar one, that opens sooner

Its a summer toy, so I consider this a really minor sin.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I'm in Tx it's summer from April to October usually. and if it's "cold" I won't drive it except a relatively few days that it's warm enough to run a little heat. the flaps failing in warming condition is not that unheard of.

[McMark]

If you run them OPEN what would the consequences be of not running them at all??

Don't do it. You will not get any airflow through your oil cooler.

[SirAndy]

If you run them OPEN what would the consequences be of not running them at all??

Don't do it. You will not get any airflow through your oil cooler.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Running "open" is the wrong terminology anyways.
The passenger side flap is actually down to direct full air flow to the oil cooler.

If you remove the flaps, you won't get any air over your oil cooler.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Andy

[RiqueMar]

If you run them OPEN what would the consequences be of not running them at all??

Don't do it. You will not get any airflow through your oil cooler.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Running "open" is the wrong terminology anyways.
The passenger side flap is actually down to direct full air flow to the oil cooler.

If you remove the flaps, you won't get any air over your oil cooler.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Andy

What about keeping the flaps in, but always in cooling mode?

I understand the direction of airflow over the oil cooler, but what about always having them in cooling mode? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[7275914911]

If you run them OPEN what would the consequences be of not running them at all??

Don't do it. You will not get any airflow through your oil cooler.

Thx....

KP

[SirAndy]

What about keeping the flaps in, but always in cooling mode?
I understand the direction of airflow over the oil cooler, but what about always having them in cooling mode? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

I ran my 2056 like that. No thermostat, flaps always in full cooling mode.

Worked fine here in CA even through the "winter".
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) Andy

[tat2dphreak]

I ran my 2056 like that. No thermostat, flaps always in full cooling mode.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) wes just took the next step and removed them and fabricated new pieces to guide the air correctly, but leaving them in "full cooling" is essentially the same.

[RiqueMar]

I ran my 2056 like that. No thermostat, flaps always in full cooling mode.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) wes just took the next step and removed them and fabricated new pieces to guide the air correctly, but leaving them in "full cooling" is essentially the same.

See, I'm considering this, because SoCal has no real 'winter'.

[RiqueMar]

As I said, I was considering this, so here's some visuals that I snapped today...


The first picture is of the flaps in the 'warm up' position......

(IMG:http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b6/Emar06/18074796.jpg)



THe second, is the flaps in the 'cooling' position....

(IMG:http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b6/Emar06/9c7f1068.jpg)

[SirAndy]

The second, is the flaps in the 'cooling' position...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)


Notice how the drivers side flap is all open to let air flow over the cylinders while the passenger side flap is down to give full air flow to the oil cooler.

If you simply removed the flaps, your oil cooler would not get any air ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[ME733]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) ..well ..NOT having any air flaps. Diverters at all.....will not effect air going over the oil cooler....the air is pressurized..and as such WILL equalize in the sheetmetal back to front and go over the cylinders and oil cooler and out. I have never had ANY repeat ANY oil cooling problems , by removing ALL the crap that is in the way, of restricting air flow to the cylinders..(.THE DAMN FLAPS.) The engine , cools ,revs better as the compacted air has less restriction, and or cavation.(compacting air to the point that air flow virtually ceases) . When your cast aluminum fan blows up (as some one in a recient post had )...it is due from the force , restriction, cavation, to such a degree that the AIR PRESSURE will break aluminum fins off the air impeller/blower. This is why the racers who turn ..LOTS of rpm,s remove fan blades. To prevent cavation. to keep air flow going at extreme rpm,s. Porsche race cars solved the problem by having air blowers/ fans, with FEWER blades... all that force , of air inside the air housings, against the fan blades ALSO COSTS HORSEPOWER, Now with all this said I do not build engines for people that sit in traffic, for hours, and turn only 3500 rpms. with 10-w-30-oil., ,.I.M.E. no flaps - no problem. However; If there are those owners of 914s who want their cars to be totally stock as relates to air diverters, flappers and are concerned that modofications MAY affect the cooling of their engine then please disreguard ALL the information in this post. By all means do it your way.It,s your money, and time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[SirAndy]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) ..well ..NOT having any air flaps. Diverters at all.....will not effect air going over the oil cooler....the air is pressurized..and as such WILL equalize in the sheetmetal back to front and go over the cylinders and oil cooler and out.

Least resistance...
The path over the cylinders and out the bottom is much less restrictive than the path through the small cavities in the oil cooler.
I doubt you get any decent air flow through the oil cooler that way. It might work on your race car for short run sessions, but it won't work for a daily driver.

Heck, i know of one AX 914 that does not run any cooling at all, no tin, no fan, no shroud, nada.
It still does have the stock oil cooler with a 12V computer housing fan providing "air flow".
Works great on 60 second runs.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[McMark]

I do not build engines for people that sit in traffic, for hours, and turn only 3500 rpms. with 10-w-30-oil., ,.I.M.E. no flaps - no problem.

WHAT!? Since most of the cars here are daily driver types, and not EXCLUSIVE autocross types, PLEASE don't promote racer modifications as daily driver modifications. You said you don't have experience with daily driver cars, so don't make blanket recommendations for daily drivers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

I recently installed the cooling flaps in a motor that the builder had left them out of and got an 80 degree drop in the oil temp. It went from baking the oil to running perfectly cool with no other changes than installing the flaps.

[ME733]

I do not build engines for people that sit in traffic, for hours, and turn only 3500 rpms. with 10-w-30-oil., ,.I.M.E. no flaps - no problem.

WHAT!? Since most of the cars here are daily driver types, and not EXCLUSIVE autocross types, PLEASE don't promote racer modifications as daily driver modifications. You said you don't have experience with daily driver cars, so don't make blanket recommendations for daily drivers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

I recently installed the cooling flaps in a motor that the builder had left them out of and got an 80 degree drop in the oil temp. It went from baking the oil to running perfectly cool with no other changes than installing the flaps.

Which "motor" are you talking about?, the fan blower, heater motor?...the fuel pump "motor"?..etc. I am talking about the ENGINE .you have so much experience you don"t know the difference. Allow me to help. MOTORS are electrical things. ENGINES are internal combustion things. the 914,s I,ve built have to warn up...even on hot days, due to the oil not getting up to temperature very fast., and run cool. and are/were driven.(to the track and back)... also I qualified my response to this post....so who annoited you as the "RESPONSE POLICE". and your angry?...well shit I just hate that.

[RiqueMar]

I do not build engines for people that sit in traffic, for hours, and turn only 3500 rpms. with 10-w-30-oil., ,.I.M.E. no flaps - no problem.

WHAT!? Since most of the cars here are daily driver types, and not EXCLUSIVE autocross types, PLEASE don't promote racer modifications as daily driver modifications. You said you don't have experience with daily driver cars, so don't make blanket recommendations for daily drivers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

I recently installed the cooling flaps in a motor that the builder had left them out of and got an 80 degree drop in the oil temp. It went from baking the oil to running perfectly cool with no other changes than installing the flaps.

Which "motor" are you talking about?, the fan blower, heater motor?...the fuel pump "motor"?..etc. I am talking about the ENGINE .you have so much experience you don"t know the difference. Allow me to help. MOTORS are electrical things. ENGINES are internal combustion things. the 914,s I,ve built have to warn up...even on hot days, due to the oil not getting up to temperature very fast., and run cool. and are/were driven.(to the track and back)... also I qualified my response to this post....so who annoited you as the "RESPONSE POLICE". and your angry?...well shit I just hate that.

Chill, the only reason McMark and SirAndy are defensive of their response was because your first post seemed aggressive.

There's no need to specify motor or engine, we all know what the other is talking about. And regardless, a motor is anything that produces and imparts motion, so motor is correct.

[SirAndy]

Motor - A machine that converts other forms of energy into mechanical energy and so imparts motion

In ROW, there's no distinction between "Motor" and "Engine". A fuel pump motor would simply be a "Electrical Motor" while a car engine would be a "Internal Combustion Motor".

In any case, this is a moot point and semantics are not relevant to the discussion.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[McMark]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)
Oh man. Talking about keeping motors ALIVE turned into an english lesson.

Bottom line, ME733, your advice will cause people with daily drivers to lose motors. Whoops, engines. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

... I have never had ANY repeat ANY oil cooling problems , by removing ALL the crap that is in the way, of restricting air flow to the cylinders..(.THE DAMN FLAPS.)
...
Now with all this said I do not build engines for people that sit in traffic, for hours, and turn only 3500 rpms. with 10-w-30-oil., ,.I.M.E. no flaps - no problem.

Your post illustrates two things quite well.

First, that a race car is not a street car, and that most race car mods make for really crappy street cars.

Second, that the "no flaps needed" myth is really pervasive, and that we still need to be on guard against those who try to spread it. And it truly is a myth--street 914s do in fact need them. I've seen at least one motor cooked from leaving them out, and two more that were caught before permanent damage was done. (Yoder couldn't understand why his oil temps were so high. Once he installed them, the temps came down.)

--DD

[ME733]

... I have never had ANY repeat ANY oil cooling problems , by removing ALL the crap that is in the way, of restricting air flow to the cylinders..(.THE DAMN FLAPS.)
...
Now with all this said I do not build engines for people that sit in traffic, for hours, and turn only 3500 rpms. with 10-w-30-oil., ,.I.M.E. no flaps - no problem.

Your post illustrates two things quite well.

First, that a race car is not a street car, and that most race car mods make for really crappy street cars.

Second, that the "no flaps needed" myth is really pervasive, and that we still need to be on guard against those who try to spread it. And it truly is a myth--street 914s do in fact need them. I've seen at least one motor cooked from leaving them out, and two more that were caught before permanent damage was done. (Yoder couldn't understand why his oil temps were so high. Once he installed them, the temps came down.)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Well Dave, for you to say the ..No flaps needed " MYTH is pervasive and you need to be on guard"etc. is just ignorant arrognance.. I have built plenty of street cars without the "damn flaps". and every one of them ran cool.( every one of them was non stock). it,s not a myth its a FACT. What you and other people have experienced is other problems with the engine that you failed to recognize.(and probably won,t admit ).examples: ignition timing too low or high., fuel grade too low, lean fuel delivery(jets or injectors), clogged oil cooler, and missing SIDE TIN/sheetmetal( which IS imperative to retain,)... improper valve lash,manafold air leaks, and many other things. A FAILED flapper cable connection, bellows , or jambing of these items or the 'flappers', will fry the engine also.The "flappers and air ductwork were designed to accomodate the entire spectrum of weather conditions ,. Including very cold weather. So the 914 would operate normally in ALL weather conditions. with about 72-to 100 horsepower. With any modification which increases H.P.over stock ... ,2.o injectors on a 1.7 or carb conversions, cams , headwork, etc that increases H.P. and btu,s of heat you should rethink what cools the engine, and how it can be done more effectively . HAVE you heard about the alternative fan housings and impellers which have been around for at least 15 years?. maybe the 911 engine?, no bellows no cable ,no flappers no problem. Just air pressure passing thru the oil cooler fins. So If YOU want to use the "damn flappers" and associated crap please continue to do so.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[rhodyguy]

if i put an oil cooler in one of the wheelwells do i still need to install all the crap?