Front Suspension Q Options

[kenny9one4]

I'm starting to aquire parts and pieces to move to 5 lug and it looks like I may have a chance to purchase a complete front suspension from a 79 Targa. Will it bolt up to my 73 or will I need to make some changes? If I can get it, (if it's a good idea) what is a good price to pay for it in good shape?

[ConeDodger]

I'm starting to aquire parts and pieces to move to 5 lug and it looks like I may have a chance to purchase a complete front suspension from a 79 Targa. Will it bolt up to my 73 or will I need to make some changes? If I can get it, (if it's a good idea) what is a good price to pay for it in good shape?

It will bolt up. I think I have seen the one you are looking at and at $700 it is NOT a steal. Bird Board 911 parts for sale? Of course if you are looking for the brakes and such too...

[Joe Bob]

Anything under 350 is a good.....of course it depends on the condition of the wear items. Discs, calipers, pads, etc.

[scotty b]

I was gonna say under 300.00 but Z has more money than I do (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

It will bolt up. Here's some thoughts on what I would do/look for/consider:

1. Under body bar. Not a bad thing just not a good thing regarding selection and geometry. Almost all of these are too large for a standard 914. A 79 Targa bar will probably be 20mm. While the suspension is off, I would cut those mounts off and pickup a set of U-Tabs from Mark Bland (Engman Products) to weld on for a through body bar.

2. Why not just bolt those struts on your arms (or simply look for some 911 struts for much less as the boys be mentioning)? This way you could keep your 914 torsion bars and have the desired 911 strut and 5-lug front end. If you have a 73 you probably have the late model pin style ball joints so, it's a simple strut swap.

3. Plan on new wear items. New rotors. Rebuild your calipers. New pads. Strut inserts (possibly). New bearings, and wheel seals would top my list of "must have's while you're in there."

4. If you don't have a front bar; now would be a great time to add one. Stock is a great choice for a street driven car. I wouldn't go higher than 19mm and only if you plan to autocross. If this will be a full out road course or competition car then there are many options out there.

My favorite 911 strut (the factory's too) for a narrow bodied car is the 911T strut with 3" spacing and M-Calipers over 20mm vented rotors. This is the strut used on the stock 914-6. If you plan on having a nice 914-4 with a really nice 5-lug set up this would be my choice. If you plan on going with a larger engine and flares; I would look for a strut similar to what you're looking at now. The dime-a-dozen 911SC strut with A-Calipers that reside over 20mm rotors is a nice choice. YMMV. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Eric_Shea]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

[Heeltoe914]

It will bolt up. Here's some thoughts on what I would do/look for/consider:

1. Under body bar. Not a bad thing just not a good thing regarding selection and geometry. Almost all of these are too large for a standard 914. A 79 Targa bar will probably be 20mm. While the suspension is off, I would cut those mounts off and pickup a set of U-Tabs from Mark Bland (Engman Products) to weld on for a through body bar.

2. Why not just bolt those struts on your arms (or simply look for some 911 struts for much less as the boys be mentioning)? This way you could keep your 914 torsion bars and have the desired 911 strut and 5-lug front end. If you have a 73 you probably have the late model pin style ball joints so, it's a simple strut swap.

3. Plan on new wear items. New rotors. Rebuild your calipers. New pads. Strut inserts (possibly). New bearings, and wheel seals would top my list of "must have's while you're in there."

4. If you don't have a front bar; now would be a great time to add one. Stock is a great choice for a street driven car. I wouldn't go higher than 19mm and only if you plan to autocross. If this will be a full out road course or competition car then there are many options out there.

My favorite 911 strut (the factory's too) for a narrow bodied car is the 911T strut with 3" spacing and M-Calipers over 20mm vented rotors. This is the strut used on the stock 914-6. If you plan on having a nice 914-4 with a really nice 5-lug set up this would be my choice. If you plan on going with a larger engine and flares; I would look for a strut similar to what you're looking at now. The dime-a-dozen 911SC strut with A-Calipers that reside over 20mm rotors is a nice choice. YMMV. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

What he said

[johnnie5]

BTW... Eric did not give himself a shamless plug, so I will. I bought most of my 5 lug conversion stuff from him. He is PMB Performance, and he actually has all of the stuff you need...maybe minus the 911 struts (or maybe even the struts as well). That is what he does, and he is good at it... and he's not such a bad guy either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

[kenny9one4]

Well, I drove out to look at the front suspension this morning. He no-shows so one of the guys that work there walks me over to the parts. Sitting outside in the dirt, uncovered, and rusted to the point that one rotor wouldn't turn. Not impressed am I. I know suspension parts take a beating and a lot of it can be cleaned up, but for $900.00!!! Oh, I don't think so. Needless to say, I left sans parts....

I've got some more calls to make here, and I've posted on CL, but I might be looking to do what johnnie5 did. Eric, can you work with me on how to best accomplish this?

Thanks for all the help guys!

[Eric_Shea]

Sitting outside in the dirt, uncovered, and rusted to the point that one rotor wouldn't turn. Not impressed am I. I know suspension parts take a beating and a lot of it can be cleaned up, but for $900.00!!!

Tell them to...


Give me a buzz. I'd be happy to talk you through some of the pitfalls etc.

Thanks John! (check's in the mail!!)

E.

[SLITS]

It will bolt up. Here's some thoughts on what I would do/look for/consider:

1. Under body bar. Not a bad thing just not a good thing regarding selection and geometry. Almost all of these are too large for a standard 914. A 79 Targa bar will probably be 20mm. While the suspension is off, I would cut those mounts off and pickup a set of U-Tabs from Mark Bland (Engman Products) to weld on for a through body bar.

Well Eric, I will disagree here and we are not talking a track car, but a street car.

The bar is larger diameter to achieve the same/somewhat equal torsional force exerted on the thru body. Due to the design of the underbody, the "effective arm" is less than that of the thru body. So, to achieve the same effective rate of torsional resistance, you increase the diameter of the bar with a shorter arm.

Pretty nifty huh? That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

I fitted the Brown Turd with an SC front end and 160 lb rears. Flattest cornering car I ever had short of the race car

[Eric_Shea]

OK (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[r_towle]

Does someone have a picture of the under body bar?

I would assume its not adjustable, at least not by much.
A big bar with fixed length arms would be pretty easy to figure out what torsional force it can withstand.

I would guess that given the lack of adjustability, it would not be a the best solution at the end of the day, but I could also be wrong.
Once I set my bar up, I have not changed it in years...just drive what you got.

RIch

[jcd914]

[ So, to achieve the same effective rate of torsional resistance, you increase the diameter of the bar with a shorter arm.

OK some days I am more mathematically challenged that others but I can't make this work in my head.

On an adjustable thru-body sway-bar:
If you move the drop link closer to the sway-bar pivot point (shorten the arm length) you stiffen up the sway-bar.
If you install a larger diameter bar and leave the drop link position the same you stiffen up the sway-bar.

So if you are saying that an under-body bar is similar in torsional resistance to a thru-body bar and we know the under-body bar is large in diameter then the arm length on the under-body bar needs to be longer than the thru-body arm. I don't have an under-body bar to measure but I do have a stock 914 and a 19mm adjustable thru-body bars that I could measure.

So I am confused (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


Under-body sway-bars are not adjustable in either torsional resistance or pre-load but with a good set of matching in rear springs an under-body sway-bar can be a nice set up on a street 914.

Since I can't leaving anything alone (got to tinker) an adjustable thru-body bar is my only choice and the geometry of the thru-body bar is much better than the under-body bar.

Jim

[SLITS]

As usual, in my senior moment, I have it bassackwards. Oh well. Underbody would have a longer arm due to it's layout.

The only time I putzed with an adjustable bar was on a race car.

[johnnie5]

Sitting outside in the dirt, uncovered, and rusted to the point that one rotor wouldn't turn. Not impressed am I. I know suspension parts take a beating and a lot of it can be cleaned up, but for $900.00!!!

Tell them to...


Give me a buzz. I'd be happy to talk you through some of the pitfalls etc.

Thanks John! (check's in the mail!!)

E.

Eric,
Are you sending me a check? I hope its for big $$$ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I will be in SLC first week of March on a hill bombing mission. I will bring your cores + my end of the deal.

End hijack

[toon1]

It will bolt up. Here's some thoughts on what I would do/look for/consider:

1. Under body bar. Not a bad thing just not a good thing regarding selection and geometry. Almost all of these are too large for a standard 914. A 79 Targa bar will probably be 20mm. While the suspension is off, I would cut those mounts off and pickup a set of U-Tabs from Mark Bland (Engman Products) to weld on for a through body bar.

2. Why not just bolt those struts on your arms (or simply look for some 911 struts for much less as the boys be mentioning)? This way you could keep your 914 torsion bars and have the desired 911 strut and 5-lug front end. If you have a 73 you probably have the late model pin style ball joints so, it's a simple strut swap.

3. Plan on new wear items. New rotors. Rebuild your calipers. New pads. Strut inserts (possibly). New bearings, and wheel seals would top my list of "must have's while you're in there."

4. If you don't have a front bar; now would be a great time to add one. Stock is a great choice for a street driven car. I wouldn't go higher than 19mm and only if you plan to autocross. If this will be a full out road course or competition car then there are many options out there.

My favorite 911 strut (the factory's too) for a narrow bodied car is the 911T strut with 3" spacing and M-Calipers over 20mm vented rotors. This is the strut used on the stock 914-6. If you plan on having a nice 914-4 with a really nice 5-lug set up this would be my choice. If you plan on going with a larger engine and flares; I would look for a strut similar to what you're looking at now. The dime-a-dozen 911SC strut with A-Calipers that reside over 20mm rotors is a nice choice. YMMV. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Eric, you are saying the SC front struts will bolt to the stock 914 control arms?

I was told that the only struts that will bolt right up is the 911T.

[Eric_Shea]

Eric, you are saying the SC front struts will bolt to the stock 914 control arms?

Yup. If you have the late model ball joints (pin style not through bolt). B-O-L-T right up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I was told that the only struts that will bolt right up is the 911T.

Poppy-Cock (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The 911T strut is the same strut they used on the 914-6 and it's my all-around favorite for a narrow body car for various reasons (insert selectability, M-Calipers and 20mm vented rotors) but, by no means is it the only strut that will bolt right up. The following will do just nicely thank you:

911T - 3" Spacing
911S Koni - 3.5" Spacing
911S Bilstein - 3.5" Spacing
911SC/Carrera Boge - 3.5" Spacing

Even on an early a-arm (1970-1972.8). You'll have to change the ball joint but they'll bolt right up.

Maybe it was the only one that will bolt right up and use the M-Caliper.

[Eric_Shea]

Are you sending me a check? I hope its for big $$$

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-1110-1234828121.jpg)

[Eric_Shea]

I received a PM that I thought should be posted out here. Maybe someone here can clarify if there is a tab on the early 914 a-arm to hold the ball joint.:

Hi Eric, In the thread on the forum you mentioned "early style control arms" 70-72.8.

I have a set of 71's and a set ( that is on my car) of early 73's.

What are the differences?

"Generally" just the ball joint. There are two styles:

Early = Rounded notch where a bolt goes through and pinches the bottom of the strut. These would coincide with a pinch style strut as well. Look for a slit at the base of the strut.

Late = V notch where a v pin goes through the bottom of the strut. These would coincide with a pin style strut. Look for a solid base on the strut.

There is a "tab" at the ball joint recess on the late model strut as well. This tab may be present on he early strut but I don't think so. The tab holds the ball joint from moving as you crank it down. I don't think it's necessary as the entire post moves in the joint, meaning; even if the early style a-arm didn't have this tab, you could install a late ball joint and torque it down and be good to go.

It might be a hindrance if you found some early 911 struts to use and you wanted to install the early style ball joint on the late arms (that have the tab).

Making sense?

E.