 Valve adjustment question, Valve clearance doesn't seem right |
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| tag |
 May 23 2009, 10:15 AM
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#1
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 5-December 08 From: Point, Texas Member No.: 9,815 Region Association: None  |
Hey guys,
I was adjusting my valves and noticed one of them was way off (see pic). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif) I screwed in the adjustment screw to take up the slack for this picture so you could see how much it took to tighten the valve. When i purchased this car it seemed to be running fine especially after a tune-up just a little noisy, this is the first time I've tried to adjust the valves and i figured this would be a good time as any sense I was already removing the tin to clean out the debris. Please break it to me gently (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) do I have major problem? See picture of the intake on No. 1  |
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| jaxdream |
May 23 2009, 10:24 AM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 974 Joined: 8-July 08 From: North Central Tennessee Member No.: 9,270 Region Association: South East States |
Looks ok to me , just got to ajust for the clearance what ever the spec is . One thing I see in the pic is the lack of lock nut on that screw adjuster , you do have that nut?? Adjust them in the order instructed , if you don't have a manual there is probably a tech article here for that if not pelican has some great tech articles especially on vavle adjustment procedures , use the search function - it's your friend !!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)
Jaxdream |
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| tag |
May 23 2009, 10:38 AM
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 5-December 08 From: Point, Texas Member No.: 9,815 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(jaxdream @ May 23 2009, 08:24 AM)  Looks ok to me , just got to ajust for the clearance what ever the spec is . One thing I see in the pic is the lack of lock nut on that screw adjuster , you do have that nut?? Adjust them in the order instructed , if you don't have a manual there is probably a tech article here for that if not pelican has some great tech articles especially on vavle adjustment procedures , use the search function - it's your friend !!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif) Jaxdream Compared to the other valves it is the only one I had to screw in that far, it's making me think there is a problem. I have the lock nut, i just screwed this in for the picture. Also in the valve adjustment articles I've been reading say to use a 13mm wrench, mine are 14mm and 15mm (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif). Would a bent push rod cause these symptoms? |
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| Dave_Darling |
May 23 2009, 10:46 AM
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#4
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914 Idiot Group: Members Posts: 14,982 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Silicon Valley / Kailua-Kona Member No.: 121 Region Association: Northern California 
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It looks to me as if the whole valve/spring/retainer is further in toward the head than its neighbor. To me, that says dropped seat...
Did it sound funny when you cranked the starter? Sort of a dead spot in the noise? "RR-RR-RR-..-RR-RR-RR-.." If so, that is a strong indicator of a cylinder without compression, which would also point toward a dropped seat in this case. --DD |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
May 23 2009, 10:47 AM
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#5
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
The nuts after 1973 are often 14mm. Did you use The Cap'n's handy dandy foolproof method for adjusting the valves? See the writeup in the classic threads. Report back. The Cap'n
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| tag |
May 23 2009, 10:56 AM
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 5-December 08 From: Point, Texas Member No.: 9,815 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ May 23 2009, 08:46 AM) It looks to me as if the whole valve/spring/retainer is further in toward the head than its neighbor. To me, that says dropped seat... Did it sound funny when you cranked the starter? Sort of a dead spot in the noise? "RR-RR-RR-..-RR-RR-RR-.." If so, that is a strong indicator of a cylinder without compression, which would also point toward a dropped seat in this case. --DD They all look even to me see pic.  |
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| tag |
May 23 2009, 11:14 AM
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 5-December 08 From: Point, Texas Member No.: 9,815 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ May 23 2009, 08:47 AM) The nuts after 1973 are often 14mm. Did you use The Cap'n's handy dandy foolproof method for adjusting the valves? See the writeup in the classic threads. Report back. The Cap'n I'm using your instructions, it's just when I got to No. 1 intake it is 1/4" loose so I was worried I have a problem. I'm waiting to hear from someone saying it's normal or something else. |
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| underthetire |
May 23 2009, 11:58 AM
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#8
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,062 Joined: 7-October 08 From: Brentwood Member No.: 9,623 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(tag @ May 23 2009, 10:14 AM) QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ May 23 2009, 08:47 AM) The nuts after 1973 are often 14mm. Did you use The Cap'n's handy dandy foolproof method for adjusting the valves? See the writeup in the classic threads. Report back. The Cap'n I'm using your instructions, it's just when I got to No. 1 intake it is 1/4" loose so I was worried I have a problem. I'm waiting to hear from someone saying it's normal or something else. Mine are like that as well. I have hydraulic lifters. Any chance they were changed out ? |
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| cwpeden |
May 23 2009, 12:05 PM
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#9
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Great White North, huh? Group: Members Posts: 916 Joined: 20-August 06 From: Victoria BC Member No.: 6,693 Region Association: Canada |
To me it looks as if the other three arent in far enough. All of mine look like your oddball. (73 2.0)
Check the nuts that hold the rocker shaft. That one looks to be out a bit. |
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| tag |
May 23 2009, 12:12 PM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 5-December 08 From: Point, Texas Member No.: 9,815 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(cwpeden @ May 23 2009, 10:05 AM) To me it looks as if the other three arent in far enough. All of mine look like your oddball. (73 2.0) Check the nuts that hold the rocker shaft. That one looks to be out a bit. Okay I'm checking now. If their hydraulic do have to pull back on the rocker to see how much play you have? |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
May 23 2009, 12:39 PM
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#11
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
QUOTE(tag @ May 23 2009, 11:12 AM) QUOTE(cwpeden @ May 23 2009, 10:05 AM) To me it looks as if the other three arent in far enough. All of mine look like your oddball. (73 2.0) Check the nuts that hold the rocker shaft. That one looks to be out a bit. Okay I'm checking now. If their hydraulic do have to pull back on the rocker to see how much play you have? No. The adjusters would be preloaded. The adjustment you describe is NOT normal. However, how bad it is can vary. Might wanna remove the rocker stands and check the spring heights, but I don't think that's your problem. Generally, if the seat is moving around, it'll be pounded into the head, moving the valve outward. Not always, but it's a good clue. If it ran OK and didn't make a horrendous clacking sound, the seat has a good chance of being OK. You can tell if you have hydraulic lifters by getting a small and very bright flashlight and looking down the PR tube at the lifters. Hyd lifters have a squarish wire clip, visible on 3 sides of the inner tip of the pushrod. Report back. The Cap'n |
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| tag |
May 23 2009, 01:08 PM
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 5-December 08 From: Point, Texas Member No.: 9,815 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ May 23 2009, 10:39 AM) QUOTE(tag @ May 23 2009, 11:12 AM) QUOTE(cwpeden @ May 23 2009, 10:05 AM) To me it looks as if the other three arent in far enough. All of mine look like your oddball. (73 2.0) Check the nuts that hold the rocker shaft. That one looks to be out a bit. Okay I'm checking now. If their hydraulic do have to pull back on the rocker to see how much play you have? No. The adjusters would be preloaded. The adjustment you describe is NOT normal. However, how bad it is can vary. Might wanna remove the rocker stands and check the spring heights, but I don't think that's your problem. Generally, if the seat is moving around, it'll be pounded into the head, moving the valve outward. Not always, but it's a good clue. If it ran OK and didn't make a horrendous clacking sound, the seat has a good chance of being OK. You can tell if you have hydraulic lifters by getting a small and very bright flashlight and looking down the PR tube at the lifters. Hyd lifters have a squarish wire clip, visible on 3 sides of the inner tip of the pushrod. Report back. The Cap'n Hey Cap'n, Your saying the rocker is preloaded (spring), that is what I'm talking about, I pull back the rocker and screw in the adjuster nut to .008 and .006. I went through your "how to" three times and every time i had to adjust the adjusters in alittle more. See pics  |
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| tag |
May 23 2009, 01:09 PM
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 5-December 08 From: Point, Texas Member No.: 9,815 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(tag @ May 23 2009, 11:08 AM) QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ May 23 2009, 10:39 AM) QUOTE(tag @ May 23 2009, 11:12 AM) QUOTE(cwpeden @ May 23 2009, 10:05 AM) To me it looks as if the other three arent in far enough. All of mine look like your oddball. (73 2.0) Check the nuts that hold the rocker shaft. That one looks to be out a bit. Okay I'm checking now. If their hydraulic do have to pull back on the rocker to see how much play you have? No. The adjusters would be preloaded. The adjustment you describe is NOT normal. However, how bad it is can vary. Might wanna remove the rocker stands and check the spring heights, but I don't think that's your problem. Generally, if the seat is moving around, it'll be pounded into the head, moving the valve outward. Not always, but it's a good clue. If it ran OK and didn't make a horrendous clacking sound, the seat has a good chance of being OK. You can tell if you have hydraulic lifters by getting a small and very bright flashlight and looking down the PR tube at the lifters. Hyd lifters have a squarish wire clip, visible on 3 sides of the inner tip of the pushrod. Report back. The Cap'n Hey Cap'n, Your saying the rocker is preloaded (spring), that is what I'm talking about, I pull back the rocker and screw in the adjuster nut to .008 and .006. I went through your "how to" three times and every time i had to adjust the adjusters in alittle more. See pics Other side  |
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| cwpeden |
May 23 2009, 01:18 PM
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#14
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Great White North, huh? Group: Members Posts: 916 Joined: 20-August 06 From: Victoria BC Member No.: 6,693 Region Association: Canada |
Ok, optical illusion.
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| Cap'n Krusty |
May 23 2009, 01:37 PM
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#15
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
We have a problem here. You've jumped to a conclusion that isn't supported by investigation. LOOK AT THE LIFTERS. Report back. If the lifters are hydraulic, the method of adjustment is similar, but different in one very important way. As you go through turning the engine and adjusting the valves, you back off each adjuster screw until there's clearance, you then VERY carefully turn the screw inward with your finger tips until there is ZERO lash and NO preload on the pushrod or the valve. You then turn the adjuster in TWO full turns (this is for factory hydraulic adjusters and steel pushrods). You do each valve in turn. HOWEVER, from what I can see, you probably don't have hydraulic lifters, unless someone didn't do the complete conversion. The rocker shaft spacers are missing, and the coil springs used on solid lifter setups are present. I'm outtahere for a while, but I'll try to check in later on. The Cap'n
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| tag |
May 23 2009, 02:37 PM
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 5-December 08 From: Point, Texas Member No.: 9,815 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ May 23 2009, 11:37 AM) We have a problem here. You've jumped to a conclusion that isn't supported by investigation. LOOK AT THE LIFTERS. Report back. If the lifters are hydraulic, the method of adjustment is similar, but different in one very important way. As you go through turning the engine and adjusting the valves, you back off each adjuster screw until there's clearance, you then VERY carefully turn the screw inward with your finger tips until there is ZERO lash and NO preload on the pushrod or the valve. You then turn the adjuster in TWO full turns (this is for factory hydraulic adjusters and steel pushrods). You do each valve in turn. HOWEVER, from what I can see, you probably don't have hydraulic lifters, unless someone didn't do the complete conversion. The rocker shaft spacers are missing, and the coil springs used on solid lifter setups are present. I'm outtahere for a while, but I'll try to check in later on. The Cap'n See pics I think their hydraulic lifters. Kinda (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) look like GM lifters on end. Let me know Cap. These are pictures of No 2 Ext and In.   |
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| Cap'n Krusty |
May 23 2009, 06:01 PM
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#17
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Cap'n Krusty Group: Members Posts: 10,794 Joined: 24-June 04 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,246 Region Association: Central California |
Hard for me to tell from your (pretty good!) pictures. Are there little clips in the lifters? They'll look like squares with one side cut off. The Cap'n
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| roadster fan |
May 23 2009, 06:20 PM
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#18
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Project Frankenstein !!!!!!!! Group: Members Posts: 1,009 Joined: 24-November 05 From: Aptos, CA Member No.: 5,184 Region Association: Northern California |
Hard to tell in the top pic, but the bottom one looks like a hydraulic lifter to me, but then again I am no expert.........I just play one on TV (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Jim |
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| tag |
May 23 2009, 06:40 PM
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 5-December 08 From: Point, Texas Member No.: 9,815 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ May 23 2009, 04:01 PM) Hard for me to tell from your (pretty good!) pictures. Are there little clips in the lifters? They'll look like squares with one side cut off. The Cap'n It looks like a clip of some kind. I think it looks like a GM lifter on end. Can these be adjusted while the engine is cold? Thank you for your help (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| tag |
May 23 2009, 08:55 PM
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 5-December 08 From: Point, Texas Member No.: 9,815 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(tag @ May 23 2009, 04:40 PM) QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ May 23 2009, 04:01 PM) Hard for me to tell from your (pretty good!) pictures. Are there little clips in the lifters? They'll look like squares with one side cut off. The Cap'n It looks like a clip of some kind. I think it looks like a GM lifter on end. Can these be adjusted while the engine is cold? Thank you for your help (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Looks like these http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html |
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