Not a Porsche: What Do You Know About Alfas? Options

[silver six]

I know this is a little off topic but I was curious: what do you folks know about Alfas?

I've always liked the mid-sixties and early seventies Alfas, especially the Guiliettas. Is the cost of ownership similar to a 914? Are they as reliable? Are parts as easy to get? Or at the end of the day would I just have to throw money at these cars to get them to run right? I'm no stranger to throwing some money at my Porsche but my expectation is that Porsche parts/technology is such that if I fix it once it stays fixed (for at least a few decades). What about the Alfas?

Here's an example. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...8&category=5356

douglas

[silver six]

Another angle:

[silver six]

Another

[seanery]

I like alfas but I think they kinda fit more into the british quality level rather than the german level.

If the car is/has been restored it could be better than factory quality.
It seemed like everytime that I did something "nice" to the car one or two bad things happened. I quit doing nice things to it and it behaved after that.

I like the spider you've shown, though and might consider one when I've got 2 of every porsche (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[dagdal1967]

Hey SS. (Silver Six).

I've got a friend who is an ALFA ROMEO Freak.. Used to sell them for a living..

The older ones (especially the older Convertables) hold their value well. There weren't very many imported to the USA so they are a bit of a rareity, although because they are somewhat unknown, their price stays reasonable.

Older Alfas (Like many older Italian Cars) are known for spuradic build quality. If you get a good one, they'll run forever.. If you get a bad one... well... You'ld better own a bicycle!

Reliability on the ones with good build quality was quite high! They are absolute drivers cars, so if you get the chance to drive that little beauty, you'll most likely fall in love. *IF* you fit in it that is.. I'm not sure that the one in the pics are the same, but the spiders used to be SOO SMALL!!! .

Check out the shifting angle as well.. That has been a buggbear in many an italian sports car.

I can put you in touch with my friend (via e-mail) so he can give you the full skinny on that particular model.. It is very likely he has some of the original brochures and road tests for it.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Anyway.... Hope that is helpful in some small way.

Doug

[SirAndy]

silver six,
i don't know much about the car, but i do know a guys up here in SF
who works on them (restauration, race prep for vintage cars etc etc).
he's the best if you would ever need some work done on one :-)

Andy

[Aaron Cox]

....Older Alfas (Like many older Italian Cars) are known for spuradic build quality. If you get a good one, they'll run forever.. If you get a bad one... well... You'ld better own a bicycle!.....

heard something like..."oh well Luigi...we are out of Red and black wire today. Use blue and green instead!!!" Goodluck with any wiring issues- they can be like a good thief- UNTRACEABLE!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[VegasRacer]

Two years ago I ran in the VARA Porsche/Alfa Shootout. A weekend of historic racing with the feature race being a Porsche vs. Alfa competition. I am not exactly sure how the scoring handicap - point system worked, but Team Porsche dominated on the track and in the final tally. I had a lot of fun with a couple of Alfa's in the race. We would pass and re-pass each other several times per lap due to the different cars abilities. They finally took their proper place in my rear view mirror.

[PatW]

Alfas?.

My partner has a 72 spyder. After his engine sucked a valve. I helped him pull it apart. I was impressed with the overkill 7quart aluminum oil pan. Shim-under-bucket valvetrain. Double cams. Steel crankshaft. He mounted sidedraft webers and dropped it in. I took it for a spin and I'd have to say it moved rather well. He still has it but, is always doing some kind of tuning thing. Hey its Italian.

[Dave_Darling]

The Spider (no "y"; that's a Porsche and now Mitsubishi thing) pictured above is a Giulietta. Amazingly cute little teeny tiny cars! They're 1950s-vintage, for the most part, I think. They were many years ahead of their time, with the OHC and shim-and-bucket valve train, wet sleeve block construction, aluminum oil pans on some, and on and on and on. Even MFI at some point!! (It's got its own name that escapes me at the moment. Not Kügelfischer like BMW's or Bosch like Porsche's, but an Italian name.) Still had a live rear axle, but they were light enough that they handle pretty well.

They are very very Italian, with all the pluses and minuses that come with that. Great driver's car, as mentioned, stunning good looks (when in good shape), very advanced in some ways and old-fashioned in others, build quality that ranges from fair/good to absolutely awful, and a tendency to rust that makes 914s look galvanized.

I saw one parked outside a buddy's store a few years back. I was entranced, and did some research. Still haven't driven one, and probably won't. I don't need another fun little tiny car that rusts at the drop of a hat.

--DD

[silver six]

Doug and Seanery,

Thanks for the input. I suspected something like you two said: uneven build quality.

Andy,

Thanks for the advice. If I ever get into Alfas I'll be sure to give your buddy a call.

Dave,

I agree with you about the looks. The small small nature of the car is actually a plus because I've been thinking about this car not for me but my sister who is about 5' 3".

These are the cars she's thinking about:

The Original Porsche: The 356 The top of her list is the 356. But it looks like a nice one will run you $30,000 and to even get into a decent one you're still around $15,000. And then there are maintainance issues which will only drive up the cost of ownership. So the 356 seems like a long shot.

Boxy Bimmer : Second on her list is the 1988-1992 BMW 3 series convertable. She likes the boxy look of those cars. Unfortunately a nice example in the color she's looking for is still hovering around $10,000. This is a more doable figure but maintainance on this car may end up being very expensive as well, not because it's so old that it needs constant care (like the 356) but because it's so new parts are very expensive and the technology to maintain the car is out of my/her league. I think you need a Hal 2001 computer to fix these cars.

Second Runner Up So that's why I'm looking at other cars for her that at once are cute and interesting but less expensive than the 356 or the BMW. She sort of likes the Karmann Ghia but really not enough to spend her money on. She also sort of likes the mid-60s Volvos, a car called the Amazon, but again not that much. So I showed her the Alfa and she really likes it.

But from you-all's responses it sounds like the ultimate cost of ownership of the Alfa would be similar to the 356 (just with lower up-front costs). Too bad. The Alfa is super cute and would fit her well.

I still don't understand why she doesn't like the Ghia more. That would be a very inexpensive car to get into and super easy for me/her to maintain.

THanks for everyone's input. THis has been a fun thread.

Douglas

[tod914]

Before I purchased my 1st 914, I was real hot for an Alfa spider. The quirks that I noticed with them, 2nd gear syncros are usaully pretty rough, the rear transaxle always leaks (think its aluminum with a metal cover), and from what I recall the lica fuel injection is hard to find some1 who knows it well.
They also have oil leaks on the motors.
I think if your going for a spider you want 84? or 86? and up. Thats when the motor was increased to 2 liters and with bosch fuel injection. The 91 models have the bumper, tail light, power steering, and air bag updates. The alfas have as much pep as a 914 2.0. The 914 in my eyes is more enjoyable to drive - more of a sports car type feel. 914s seem to drive more confidently. I love the styling and interior of the alfas. Of all the owners I spoke with, they said the later model alfas are fine as reliability goes. Just need to keep an eye on the oil leaks. Ive probally had more problems with my 914s than I would of had with an alfa. Im sure there are forums for these cars. That would be your best bet to chat with some owners. I was also looking at the masserati bi-turbos which are a blast to drive, and the tvr 280i and 2500s. Wasnt impressed with the build quality of the tvr. The maintenance on the bi-turbo made me shy away from them. I must say silky smooth transmission, handle great and gobs of power.

[seanery]

The 356 may not be a bad idea. Get to know what to look for and shop, shop, shop. You can find a nice driver for $10k and a driver that needs some kind of work for considerably less. I just sold my 63 Super 90 coupe for $6300 (I didn't need 4 Porsches) It needed some cancer work, but other than that was very nice, had a good motor with webers, disc brakes, bursch exhaust, etc...

Look around....she'll get hooked and you may too! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[anthony]

I was just gonna say the same thing. I've seen some presentable looking 356es for less than $10K.

Since you didn't mention the 914 I'm guessing that she doesn't want one. A nice 914/4 seems to sell for around the same price as a nice Karmen Ghia and of course we all know the 914 is 20 times more car for the money and 100 times more fun to drive.

[butch]

Alfa's a pretty wonderful cars. I've had three. Just sold a 69 spider for $13K to a guy in Washington DC.

All the comments are pretty on. If you get a good older one, they're damn reliable.

I've been hanging out with Ezio and Roberto at Roselli's Foreign Auto Repair. They are VERY good, and they know everything about Alfa's. They're pretty good with everything. They had a 911 V8 there the other day.

Ezio can tell you if you are looking at a good one. They're on Lincoln and Azerias (sp?) in SJ.

[Jeroen]

Alfa's... well, some of them look cool
That's about it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

They already rusted in the sales brochure (you could hear the crispy sound of rust while browsing it)
You thought 914s were rusty little suckers? Wait untill you get your hands on one of these...!

Basically the Italians can only design a car, and not build one (well, not one that is durable, in any aspect)

cheers,

Jeroen
(has a bias agains italian cars... can you tell (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif))

[shoguneagle]

What a pleasant surprise! Seeing a 1963-1965(?) normal Guilia roadster on a Porsche BBS. This is what makes this a great board. I am an old "Alfistii" from way back, starting in them with this exact car in parts. They are beautiful but they do rust. The good things involve the gearboxes having ZF gears in some models (ZF's in mine that was rebuilt) Very enjoyable cars. They do not treat the body tin like Porsche but are well designed and built (I know, I have several old time sawall parties on them)

The one listed is listed as a 1965 whereas in the body it is listed as 1963. It is not a 6 cylinder but a four with what appears to be a single solex (called a Normal model). I think the hood could be from 1965.

Enough about memories. I still have a 1974 parked next to the 914 project. Have not driven it for years; needs resto which it will get after 914-6 Replica.

An unexpected inquiry. Thanks.

Steve Hurt
Shoguneagle