OT: Stick welding Options

[ruddyboys]

I have an arc welder and have been trying to weld a 1ft x 4" patch in the trunk. I am not going to buy a new welder for just this patch so I need some advise. The stick keeps sticking to the metal every time I try to weld. Every now and then I get a arc struck and am able to weld. If I hold the arc for more then a second It burns thru the metal. If I raise the power it arc with no problem but burns right thru. As I lower the power is when the sticking starts. Ant advise?

[Jake Raby]

welding sheet metal with an arc welder is a acquired talent.. It is hard for a seasoned welder to do with a stick..

what rod are you trying to use?? Is your machine AC only or does it have DC and DC reverse as well?

Lower amperage breeds the arc stickiness.. arc welders simply are not the most effective for sheet metal welding.

[SirAndy]

The stick keeps sticking to the metal every time I try to weld.

Hold the stick in an angle,maybe 45 deg or so and quickly move it over the metal, kind of like scraping over the metal, until you get an arc.

Play with it on a piece of scrap until you get the hang of it.

Then do short bursts to build up metal. It can be done on sheet metal, i've done it, but it ain't easy and you'll have to do lots of grinding afterwards.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) Andy

[geniusanthony]

When I was learning to use an arc welder I used a striking plate to get the stick heated up enough to where it would not stick. I would define a striking plate as a piece of scrap thick enough to not burn through.
As stated above, check you work angle or the angle of the stick in relation to the work, 45 deg. inclined into the work should do. Also you didn't mention what stick you are using and at what amperage. Without assuming to much and not yet knowing your stick choice or machine, can you use negative electrode? The heat you are putting into the part can be reduced some by switching your electrode and ground.. Make sure your machine and stick can handle this though.

[ruddyboys]

I have a Chicago Electric 140. I went to the local welding supply house and said I wanted to weld car sheet metal. He gave me 1/16" 6013 rods. I have been putting the rod at 90 degrees to the metal with moving the rod as if striking a match. Not sue what amp. If the rod sticks and starts to glow, when I break it away it starts an arc easy. Will try putting it on a 45 and start on a scrap piece. Should I lower the amps to stop burn thru?

[Katmanken]

Gaaa, I hate stick welders but I did learn to weld- even upside down (don't ask, watch for hot drips)

Striking is difficult and you MUST have clean metal to do it- ie: no paint, no rust.

Because the patch is horizontal, use a copper chill plate under the area where you are welding. When (not if) you burn through, the hot drip will immediately solidify where you want it. That might let you up the power a little and solve the burn through issue. You want to stop hot drops of metal from landing in places you don't want....

I use a piece of coper pipe pounded flat on one end with a stick in the other end. The flat copper is the chill plate and molten steel won't stick. Go to the Home Despot or Lowe's and wander around the piping and pipe hanger areas for other possible copper chill plates.

Hope that helps..

Ken

[ruddyboys]

Thank you all for your advise, I will give all a try and keep trying.

[Katmanken]

Oh yeah, it's all coming back to me now like a bad dream

Go to the weld store and buy some easy strikes(??). They are a special weld rod with iron in the flux and are a little easier to strike.

And.... make sure that the rods are dried out in a low temp oven. The rods are kinda like matches, they strike easier when dry...

Ken

[geniusanthony]

6013's are nice with a 1/16th rod you should be ok with only 60ish amps. You may be able to use the negative electrode with that rod, I would have to look it up. The copper chill plate is a very good call also. Make sure ou go slow and dont put too much heat into the metal and take breaks often so that too much heat doesn' t get into the piece.
Good luck.

[Jake Raby]

The 6013 is probably the best rod for this.. The striking of the arc is best done the way described above.

I learned how to weld with a stick welder also and think that everyone should... Mig welders have spoiled too many people :-)

I'd say you'll ned to move fast and you may be better with spot welds than trying to weld a bead.

[raw1298]

I worked in the oil feilds of Texas and Oklahoma in the 80's and we used nothing but stick welders. On thin metal, the way we did it, was in short beads to keep from burning through. Also you can work the other side of the piece to allow the last area to cool. Start at each corner and progressively go around until done. Take your time, and plant your forearms solidly to the car to get a more stable grip on the wand. We always said that if the weld was done right it was pretty enough not to grind! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) You can also use a torch with a clothes hanger as your rod and lay a nice bead that way.

[DBCooper]

You can also use a torch with a clothes hanger as your rod and lay a nice bead that way.

Flash from the past! If you know that you have to be either a farmer or a '50s hot rodder.

[tsbcm]

A few welding tips no matter what proccess (smaw, gmaw. fcaw..) you are working with. Always follow the D. A. S. H. principles. Distance, Angle, Speed and Heat. Trying to follow these points will always make your welding job easier.

With SMAW (stick welding)
Distance- your arc length should be the diameter of the bare electrode not including the flux.

Angle- with the travel angle the electrode should be leaning 20 -25 degrees into the direction of travel. With the work angle the electrode should bisect the joint you are welding (flat plate the electrode should be 90 degrees, if you are welding in a corner you should bisect the angle the corner developes with the electrode).

Speed - Your travel speed is determined by the size of your bead. Watch you bead as you weld and keep it about twice as wide as the bare electrode and the height should be about the size of the bare electrode. If you are buring through with these sizes of beads then your heat is too high. Just moving faster will only give you too small of a weld bead.

Heat. - this is a combination of travel speed and amperage. 1/16 6013 electrode has an amperage range of 20 - 50 amps.

A couple of other notes:

On thin metal you should always weld in electrode negative. This puts 70% of the heat into the electrode and only 30% of the heat into the metal. Less heat in the metal means less chance to burn through plus more heat in the electrode makes it easier to start.

6013 electrodes should never be heated in an oven as stated earlier. Only low hydrogen rods such as 7018 should be. The flux coating on a 6013 needs to have some moisture in it to work properly.

Make small stich welds and completly clean slag before welding to beads you already have down. Trying to weld a continous weld all the way around will put way too much heat into the meatal and at the least cause severe warpage.

Practice starts on scrap metal. This is the harded part of welding with low amperage. Strike the electrode on the metal in a sweeping motion, in the continuation of that motion lift the electrode up slightly then once the arc is started bring the electrode back down to the desired arc lenght.

Hope this helps.

[ruddyboys]

Not sure what you mean by electrode negative?

[tsbcm]

Not sure what you mean by electrode negative?

Electrode negative is the polarity of the dc current when the electrode ( welding rod ) is connected to the negative terminal of the welder and the work ( the metal being welded ) is connected to the positive terminal. The old terminology of this is straight polarity.

Some older welding machines you have to physically change the welding leads from one terminal to the other to change the polarity. Most newer machines the welding leads stay as is and you change from one to the other with the polarity switch on the welder.

[ruddyboys]

My Chicago 140 has symbol on on the welder were i connected the ground (clap) and the stick holder. Should I reverse them?

[tsbcm]

My Chicago 140 has symbol on on the welder were i connected the ground (clap) and the stick holder. Should I reverse them?

I'm not familar with a Chicago 140. I tried to look one up on line and could only find a 120 with a polarity switch. I am assuming that yours is a dc machine. If you still have the owners manual, take a look and see what polarity it is when connected in that configuration. If it is a dc machine, try reversing the leads and see how it welds.

[charliew]

You might look up a stitch welder attachment for your welder. I've had one for twenty years but have never tried it out. I learned with a wards welder in the late 70's and later switched to gas. Now it's mig or tig. I really think on car sheetmetal a small gas torch is the most productive for the money. Sometimes with the stick you can get the weld bead to build up on each side of a gap and by letting it cool you can chip off the flux and add more til it fills in. Striking the arc is a real talent, the patch you are doing won't be enough practice to get good. The copper trick is well worth getting to know how to use on any sheetmetal welding. The best part is it will make a much smoother backside. The weld won't be hanging or sagging down and need a lot of grinding. The bad thing about the stick is the flux that is left in areas that didn't didn't get chipped off and covering it up with metal and grinding the metal down and finding a hole where the flux is. The time spent grinding and rewelding to get a reasonable weld is 500 times more work than a torch or mig or tig. Even if you get good you won't do it anymore unless you are a glutton for punishment. Save the stick welder for when you build your shop to weld the perlins and heavier stuff.