OT: Exposinng a Boxster/Cayman engine, Porsche has lost me for new cars Options

[Pat Garvey]

OK, I had a major chuckle a year ago when a bud of mine put his brand new Cayman S in the concours at the 08 PCA Parade. Chuckle came from his inability to open his motor for scrutiny. Judges helped (wrong!) & he won!

Now, I read an article in Pano about the twenty steps it takes to expose your motor in a Boxster. This isn't a joke - it's documented in the current issue of Pano.

Look, I know that I'm a bit of a fogey, but 20 steps to expose the motor? Hmm, lemmesee, on my 914 and 911 I pull a single knob & there it is, in all it's easy to maintain beauty! Classic example of why I abandoned new Porsches after 1976. They stopped being enthusiast car.

Became built for the lease market in the 90's. Became what the gold chain gang of the 80's did with Bimmers.

Sorry for the rant, but that Pano article really set me off.

Pat

[zymurgist]

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I haven't studied much on Boxsters (being an air cooled fan), but I like to be able to see my car's engine.

Ah well, the current 911 jumped the shark as far as I'm concerned too. Some models weigh more than the current Corvettes, with a substantial disadvantage in horsepower and torque. My 911 is from the era when a Porsche was a lightweight car that didn't need as much power to perform.

[tommy914]

I have to disagree. The Boxster and Cayman are very much enthusiast cars. They are marvels of moden engineering and design. For me the enthusiast car is the one I can drive to the track, go faster than the 911's and 914's, with a weekend full of luggage for me AND my wife and also enjoy an afternoon of top down motoring with the convenience of an electric top.
Unless your definition of "enthusiast" is "i need instant access to the motor since its always breaking down", I challange you to provide a list of reasons you actually need to access the motor on a regular basis, other than checking the oil, which on the Boxster is done via rear trunk, as in the oil fill cap.
The only reason you need to see these motors is to change the air filter and the belt every 15,000 miles. So an extra 5 minutes of undoing a few clips is a small price to pay for all the features you get in return.
I'll never understand the "gold chain" crowd that likes to stand around and look at their shiney motors whilst polishing their "knobs".

[Boxsterund914]

I have a 2000 "S" and I can get to the top of the engine or the front of the engine very quick. If you have ever done it you will see that it's super easy and everything is very accesible. Last weekend I saw that my water pump was leaking (about 10AM Saturday morning), went to the Porsche Dealer, picked up a pump, came home changed the pump and had all the tools put away by 11:30! There is an access panel behind the seats (on the firewall) and about 9 10mm bolts opens up to get to the whole front end of the motor. You just slide the seats forward, tip them to the front and there's tons of room. As mid engine cars go, the Boxster is about as easy as any and easier than most.

I had '67 Mini Cooper "S" that you could pop the hood, see the whole engine but everything was packed so tight you couldn't DO anything! I busted more knuckles on that car than any I've ever owned.

[zymurgist]

Nice. I don't know whether I could do a water pump that fast on my Corvette.

[Cupomeat]

I am in agreement that the exposing of the engine difficulty is proportional to the need to see the engine.

Modern cars are amazingly worry and maintenance free and I will continue to drive the later Porsches as I can and have the money for.

Of course, I might agree that the older cars have more character, but usually I find the newer cars have character, it just takes longer to find it.

I read that article last night and will store it for when I buy a Cayman.

[Steve Snyder]

I have a 2000 "S" and I can get to the top of the engine or the front of the engine very quick. If you have ever done it you will see that it's super easy and everything is very accesible. Last weekend I saw that my water pump was leaking (about 10AM Saturday morning), went to the Porsche Dealer, picked up a pump, came home changed the pump and had all the tools put away by 11:30! There is an access panel behind the seats (on the firewall) and about 9 10mm bolts opens up to get to the whole front end of the motor. You just slide the seats forward, tip them to the front and there's tons of room. As mid engine cars go, the Boxster is about as easy as any and easier than most.

I had '67 Mini Cooper "S" that you could pop the hood, see the whole engine but everything was packed so tight you couldn't DO anything! I busted more knuckles on that car than any I've ever owned.

...but in your 914, you'll never have to change the water pump.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[BarberDave]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Heck; When I bought my 914 ,( 9 years. ago ) it was what I could afford and

work on my self. Now I can't even do that ! So no worry about the new ones.

Pat and i are pretty much from the same era so I understand his position very

well. Read the Pano article , Pat is right. But I think all new car are to darn

complicated. My 2 cents Dave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

[McMark]

What's the point of opening a modern engine lid? They cover most engines with huge plastic covers anyway. Plus, what exactly are you going to do in there? Fiddle with the carbs? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

If you're dedicated enough to work on your own Boxster, you'll deal with exposing the engine.

[Jake Raby]

Think exposing the engine is difficult??

Try assembling an engine.. It took me 4 hours today to install 3 pistons into a 3.2 Boxster engine that we are taking to 3.6 liters.

Here is just a taste of how much fun assembling an M96 engine can be.. Follow me o a trip to the dark side..
http://www.flat6innovations.com/engine-assembly

[Bristol]

I've also got a 2000 Boxster S and really don't have any trouble accessing the engine. I've seen the article in Pano, but haven't had the chance to read it yet. It certainly doesn't take me 20 steps to get to the engine though. You're also missing the great fun it is when you get your Boxster smogged in California. The techs usually can't find the engine and I just watch and chuckle until I step in and open it for them.

I do enjoy working on the 914 more though. But that's mostly because it's a much more simple design, so ultimately easier to work on.

Kirk

[IronHillRestorations]

No more that I've had to get to the engine in my Boxster, it hasn't been a problem for me. Great car IMHO, in a different world it would still be called a 914.

[Boxsterund914]

I have a 2000 "S" and I can get to the top of the engine or the front of the engine very quick. If you have ever done it you will see that it's super easy and everything is very accesible. Last weekend I saw that my water pump was leaking (about 10AM Saturday morning), went to the Porsche Dealer, picked up a pump, came home changed the pump and had all the tools put away by 11:30! There is an access panel behind the seats (on the firewall) and about 9 10mm bolts opens up to get to the whole front end of the motor. You just slide the seats forward, tip them to the front and there's tons of room. As mid engine cars go, the Boxster is about as easy as any and easier than most.

I had '67 Mini Cooper "S" that you could pop the hood, see the whole engine but everything was packed so tight you couldn't DO anything! I busted more knuckles on that car than any I've ever owned.

...but in your 914, you'll never have to change the water pump.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Well.......actually my 914 has a Chevy V8.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Katmanken]

GAA!!!

And I thought the goofy process of putting pistons in an assembled block of a Vanagon wasserboxer was fun...

That M96 assemby looks insane and the access to do the work is almost non-existant!!!

The engineers that designed that sucker must have decided that if one part was good, 4 more would be better.. And, let's go out of our way to make the assembly more difficult...

Whenever I design stuff, I talk to people about assembly issues, part manufacturing issues, tight tollerance issues, time to assemble issues, and then design the problems out.... This is insane!!!

[IronHillRestorations]

I think Porsche wants you to just get a new engine from them.

Several yeasrs ago when I checked, the price of a new water cooled crate 996 engine from Porsche was about $11k and the air cooled 993 engine was like $28.5k.

[Jake Raby]

I fought with piston assembly in an engine until daylight this morning.. Literally.

These engine are very difficult to work with, thats probably the reason why I actually enjoy it.

Porsche does want engines to be purchased only from them, we have crashed their party and uncovered 20 different modes of failure that the engine has.

When the factory no longer supports the engines we'll have the most advanced engine program for them.. I've already taken a 3.2 Boxster S engine to 290RWHp from an engine that originally only made 255HP at the flywheel.. Big power and insane performance is possible.

After doing crazy things with the TIV engine, working with the M96 isn't that much more difficult.. Normally "sane" people could never conquer the beast... Doing things like adding big bores, stroking cranks, porting heads and adding cams is so far from the typical "tuner" nature of the modern Porsche world..

[Pat Garvey]

I have to disagree. The Boxster and Cayman are very much enthusiast cars. They are marvels of moden engineering and design. For me the enthusiast car is the one I can drive to the track, go faster than the 911's and 914's, with a weekend full of luggage for me AND my wife and also enjoy an afternoon of top down motoring with the convenience of an electric top.
Unless your definition of "enthusiast" is "i need instant access to the motor since its always breaking down", I challange you to provide a list of reasons you actually need to access the motor on a regular basis, other than checking the oil, which on the Boxster is done via rear trunk, as in the oil fill cap.
The only reason you need to see these motors is to change the air filter and the belt every 15,000 miles. So an extra 5 minutes of undoing a few clips is a small price to pay for all the features you get in return.
I'll never understand the "gold chain" crowd that likes to stand around and look at their shiney motors whilst polishing their "knobs".

I guess I shouldn't have used that "enthusiast" term. Anyone would be enthusiastic about any Porsche the own, while it works, and while the warranty is in effect. But in ten years, when it needs some work, and you are sans electronic equipment/tools necessary for contemporary Porsches (and any contemporary car), and not necessarily inclined to further the fortunes of the Porsche dealer, some of us become less enthusiatic - you know, shade tree guys (yes we're becoming rare). Like many 914 owners, I have learned through the years. Bought books, tools. Got tech help Just wanted to keep the car forever & not spend a bundle. I can do anything on a 914, except tranny work. Because it's easy & everything is easily accessible. All low tech & I like it that way.

I doubt that there is anyone out there who lusts more than I for a Cayman S, but has passed me up - too high tech & too pricey (my 914 was 4295 new). Love them, but they just aren't for me. I'll lust from a distance.

Now, as to the "gold chain" crowd - you missed my point. It wasn't a concours thing (and do not get me started on that - you'll lose). It was a refernce to the 80's BMW owner. Many of them (not the "enthusiasts") were of the disco variety, where it was cool to be seen in a BMW. That crowd ALL wore gold chains!

Concours people are just the opposite! They are usually filthy, because they're covered with dirt from cleaning thier Porsches. No chains. No attitudes. Wierd - maybe, well, yes. Just wanted to set the record straight on the "gold chain" crowd. Apparently, you're too young to have been there. s'OK.
Pat

[orthobiz]

One thing I like about the 914 is that it looks like it was actually built by human beings. Which makes things overall pretty accessible. Newer cars built by robots are so jammed packed with stuff and sealed up it's just too hard to even think about cracking something open to fix it!

Paul