Weber Carbs, Converting a '73 914-4 2L FI to Carbs Options

[velum]

Hi!

I took the decision to convert my '73 914-4 2L FI to Carburetors. My MPS is broken, new ones are not available anymore and from what I read, rebuilds are not as good as original ones. Moreover, rebuilds are not cheap either, and other parts of my 914 fuel injection system are bound to fail in the near future. Many of these parts are no longer available or are very expensive. Hence my decision.

Now, my question: Which carbs? I think I will go with Weber carburetors. I know that some people prefer Dellorto, but they are hard to find and you cannot buy them new. Plus, they are a bit expensive. I am not racing with my car. I am mainly using it to go to the country side during the weekends. So, I am not looking for performance parts. I am just looking for something with which my car will run fine, and economically.

I was hesitating between these two models:

http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/ProductDet...97&CartID=2
http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/product_p/wk412.htm

But Webcarbsdirect does not ship to Canada, and am in Montréal. However, I found similar parts at Carbs Unlimited:

http://www.carburetion.com/weber/Dataresul...912%20,%20914-4
http://www.carburetion.com/weber/Dataresul...912%20,%20914-4

The K297 would be easier to maintain. However, someone told me that a 2L 914 won't run very well with them. That the gas will mix with the oil. I did not understand the whole explaination. I am not sure if this is true. The K1412 would give better performance, but they are a bit more trouble to adjust and have no choke.

Is any one using these carbs on a 2L 914?

Cheers!

JF

[degreeoff]

I used the 34 itc on my 1.7 for years...good setup but you will lose some power. Funny story these carbs were sooooo easy and forgiving that I actually had on come lose on the manifold (as in the thing would move back and forth by hand!) and it ran that way for a good 100 miles with only minor popping....

hust my $.02....

Josh

[jmill]

If the only choice was between the two I'd go with the dual ICT's. Singles with the long intake runners don't work as well.

[RohJay]

I use Weber 40's on my 1.8.
You might be cheating yourself by using 34's on a 2.0 ...

perhaps you should consider this set of Weber 40's in the classifieds:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=99250

( absolutely no connection to me :-) )

[pilothyer]

One of my cars has a 2.0 with a pair of 34 ICT carbs on it....It has plenty of power bottom, mid and top, yet gets very good gas milage.....easiest carbs to tune I have ever seen...for your purpose I don't see any reason you should use anything else unless you can find a pair of Dellorto FRD 34Bs, pretty much the same really, I think you will be impressed with the 34 ICTs though....Jerry

[craig downs]

Stay clear from buying new Webers as they are junk with a list of problems. The new Empi hpmx are good carbs and pretty reasonable. Dells are the best choice and I wouldn't go any bigger than 40s.

[BarberDave]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

I am not going to make any friends with any of the guys that have ans. yet !!!!!

DO NOT , Repete, DO NOT , use eather example you posted .

I have used both, single 2 bl., and the 34ict.s on my 1.7 !!!

INMO both are very dangerous to use!!!

1. Center mounted 2 bl they take forever to warm up , due to the long intake

runners. Fuel comes out of suspension , puddles in the intake runers ,and

slops raw fuel into the combustion chamber. It woun't run near right untill it

hits 3,500 RPM , try pulling out and crossing any intersection ,( Safely) with

your engine running like that.

2. 34ICT,s corrects the problems above, but is still dangerous to use.

They were made for smaller V.W. engines ,1,600 C.C. and under

above 50 MPH they have NO, repete NO, excelleration ,they choke the

engine down so much that if you want to pass any other car. truck or

buss you had better have 5 miles clear lane ahead . It will take it that

long to wind up to get you around anything. That mite be O.K. if you don't

drive over 50 MpH. IMO weber 40's are the way to go if you put any value

on your life or the life of those rideing with you.

Yes, I am very opinionated on this issue, and will post this any time

someone asks this Ques. here!!! But it's your decision !!!!!! My 2 cents

Dave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

I just noticed where you live, cold makes both worse!

[r_towle]

Sorry to disagree BarberDave, but the 1.8 in Europe came with a set of carbs very similar to the Weber 34 ICT's

For a 1.7, a set of dual weber 34 ICT carbs will run great.
For a 1.8 they will suffice, but you start to feel loss at the upper end...and this was the stockish setup for Europe, and some bus motors in the states.

For the 2.0 liter motor, I am afraid that the Dual 34ICT will just not flow enough air at the top end...but there may be someone that will prove me wrong.

Check around on thesamba for a good deal on dual weber 40MM IDF carbs with linkage.
The original Italian carb bodies are supposed to be better than the new ones, but I have only heard from one engine builder that the new ones suck....I think if you buy a kit from Empi, or WeberCarbs Direct, you will be taken care of in the long run if there are warrantee issues.

If you go to the classifieds on thesamba and look up "Johns Car Corner" in Westminter Vermont....he is close enough to know how to ship things to you, and he can probably rustle up a clean setup of carbs that you need.

If you choose to stick with Djet...let me know in PM...I can find you all the parts you need, East Coast.

Rich

[Jake Raby]

No good experiences have been had by many of my customers with Weber Carbs Direct.. I get questions (that I won't answer) all the time from people stating they have these new (cheap) carb sets that do not function correctly.

They can't get support where they bought them, so they **try** to get that support from us. I support what I sell extensively, but I refuse to support others products. (that were generally bought based on price only, from a comapnay that doesn't even understand the engine they are fitted to.)

The ICT has never impressed me.. I dislike them most because of their main jet locations being inside the carb float bowl, which makes a jet change really suck. They also do not give the type of tuning response that I look for, due to this they are more difficult to tune than a set of dual IDF style carbs.

There is NO MORE HORRIBLE means of induction for the Type 4 engine than that of a single 2 barrel progressive carb!! They always run rich due to the lack of carb heat coupled to their long runners that build fuel droplets as the fuel falls from suspension before it inters the intake port in the head... They are cold blooded as hell, un-tunable, un-responsive and overall they just plain suck! They are THE hardest carburetor to tune and unfortunately many of the buyers of them **think** that because its a single it will be easier to tune! WRONG!!

Buy a set of old school Italian or Spanish Weber IDFs and send them to Art at ACE... Or just buy a set of properly set up HPMX Empi carbs that have the upgraded linkage, have been pre-ran, inspected and are set up just for your engine.

That doesn't mean looking for the cheapest price.

"THE BITTERNESS OF POOR QUALITY REMAINS LONG AFTER THE SWEETNESS OF LOW PRICE IS FORGOTTEN"

[904svo]

No good experiences have been had by many of my customers with Weber Carbs Direct.. I get questions (that I won't answer) all the time from people stating they have these new (cheap) carb sets that do not function correctly.

They can't get support where they bought them, so they **try** to get that support from us. I support what I sell extensively, but I refuse to support others products. (that were generally bought based on price only, from a comapnay that doesn't even understand the engine they are fitted to.)

The ICT has never impressed me.. I dislike them most because of their main jet locations being inside the carb float bowl, which makes a jet change really suck. They also do not give the type of tuning response that I look for, due to this they are more difficult to tune than a set of dual IDF style carbs.

There is NO MORE HORRIBLE means of induction for the Type 4 engine than that of a single 2 barrel progressive carb!! They always run rich due to the lack of carb heat coupled to their long runners that build fuel droplets as the fuel falls from suspension before it inters the intake port in the head... They are cold blooded as hell, un-tunable, un-responsive and overall they just plain suck! They are THE hardest carburetor to tune and unfortunately many of the buyers of them **think** that because its a single it will be easier to tune! WRONG!!

Buy a set of old school Italian or Spanish Weber IDFs and send them to Art at ACE... Or just buy a set of properly set up HPMX Empi carbs that have the upgraded linkage, have been pre-ran, inspected and are set up just for your engine.

That doesn't mean looking for the cheapest price.

"THE BITTERNESS OF POOR QUALITY REMAINS LONG AFTER THE SWEETNESS OF LOW PRICE IS FORGOTTEN"

Listen to Jake he's knows!

[Rav914]

Buy a set of old school Italian or Spanish Weber IDFs and send them to Art at ACE...

That's exactly what I did. I was patient and found a pair of OLD Italian Weber 40IDF's on Craigslist and sent them directly to A.C.E

The rebuild turnaround time was about a week and the results were amazing. They were immaculate and looked new. A.C.E. flow-tested them, and set them up for my 1911. I needed only to adjust the linkages when I installed them. They run great and sound even better.

[Rand]

If I were in your shoes I would just buy a used MPS and be done. You can find a good one that holds vacuum, it will be cheaper than a carb conversion, and you will keep all the benefits of FI. Just my $.02

[BarberDave]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

There is a set of Italian 40's on our F/S classafied now ,they might be gone now

he wants $400.00 bucks for them. For that kind of money you could replace

everything in your Fuel Injection system. And from where you live ,it would run

better and less hassle. It's your car do it the way you want,lots of ideas here

some from non expert ( me ) BUT if you deside on carbs you have Jake's

opinion and that is like money in the bank. No one has his experience !!!!!

My 2 cents again Dave

[Cupomeat]

Perhaps I missed it, but I don't see any discussion about putting a new camshaft in the engine.

If you are going to keep the stock (fi) cam, fix your D-Jet and enjoy the trouble free driving that EFI gives you.

If you are going to go with the italian webers, at least put the right cam in the engine.

I'd keep the D-Jet unless you are going to increase displacement or significantly modify the engine.

I hope that helps.

[tat2dphreak]

if it was me, I'd look at the one's Jake sells... might be a hair more $$ than a pair of used webers, but you will know what you are getting is quality, and you'll have someone who will stand behind them.

[zymurgist]

If I were in your shoes I would just buy a used MPS and be done. You can find a good one that holds vacuum, it will be cheaper than a carb conversion, and you will keep all the benefits of FI. Just my $.02

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Or barring that, sell your FI gear to me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[velum]

Some of you are suggesting I should simply keep my D-JET FI. Well, it is something I might reconsider, since choosing proper carbs may not be as easy and as cheap as I thought it would be. However, I am worried about all the FI parts that are bound to fail soon or later, especilly the ones that are no longer available or very expensive:

• Auxiliary Air Regulator
• Intake Air Temperature Sensor
• Thermo Switch
• Deceleration Valve
• Throttle Switch
• ECU

And this is not to mention my MPS, which seems to have a cracked diaphragm. It goes from 20 in. Hg to 5 in. Hg in 25 seconds on a vacuum test. Where is the best place to find a used MPS (Part #0 280 100 037)? And how much will it cost? Is it really worth buying a used one, since it will eventually break too? And this is probably sooner than later.

Jake, people seem to value your experience and opinions. What do you think of all this? Should I consider fixing my D-JET FI? Otherwise, how much will I have to pay ballpark for good carbs with which I would have similar performance to what I am used to with the D-JET system?

By the way, there is a lot of very good information about the D-JET FI system here:

http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/DJetP...tm#troubleshoot
http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/manif...sure_sensor.htm

Cheers!

JF

[zymurgist]

From personal experience:

- the deceleration valve is not needed, the engine will run OK without it
- the TPS switch is rebuildable with a new circuit board, search for "Dave Sprinkle"

You have a point with the MPS though.

[IronHillRestorations]

I agree 100% with Jake.

I'd go with dual IDF's. Bigger is not better, optimum is better and too much carb will give you more trouble than power.

[jmill]

Correct me if I'm wrong here. Which I have a feeling is very likely. Isn't the Empi hpmx just an IDF Weber with the Empi name on it? IIRC Back in my VW days (20+ years ago) there was an Empi or CB MX that was just a relabeled Weber with a vent improvement.