You know, I don't like being an asshat, but several of you are testing me. Guess what - you lose!

Though we love to talk about concours 'd elegance(please note the spelling), it is not the primary function of this forum.

The primary function is to disseminate info concerning originality anf history of all 914's.

We love to hear about all the documented nuances of all 914's. They educate us.

We love to hear your tricks for making a a concours 914, so long as it keeps the car ORIGINAL, as delivered by the Fatherland(or even the dealer).

But here's the rub. Modifying a 914 and then calling it "concours" is NOT original, nor does it have any relation to 914 history. It is, in fact, "modified", and not suitable for this forum.

To those that I piss off, sorry - take it to the garage. I will no longer tolerate discussions on this forum that do not pertain to ORIGINALITY or HISTORY. It's my job to keep this forum clean & I will do so.

I will close all topics that do not conform to these rules. You have other venues.

To those that would say I'm stiffling discussion, just remember that this forum was created & designed for ORIGINALITY and HISTORY!

Sorry to be a hardass, but until you replace me, these are the rules. Pretty simple too.

Pat

You know I think you do like being an asshat, you seem to do it so well. I think you missed your calling, Pat. You would have made a great IRS auditor.

Why do you take it so personal like someone is kicking your puppy when a thread goes off topic? Take a fucking powder and roll with it. We're not curing cancer here ya know.

Pat,

I believe at the outset of my post in question about adding a CHT & OP Gauges to my 73 2L resto, I specifically asked for a way to be done in the correct originality manner for CW purposes. However, some of those replies didn't address that.

If it was off your read for this forum, then you could've simply asked if I minded moving it to the Garage or where ever, & explained the reason. Most reasonable people would accept such a request, and one would think that O&H is to address concours d'elegnace issues.

IMHO - that would've been a more helpful manner to handle the issue, rather than this heavy handed approach.

My apologies if I made what must have been a bad day for you for what ever other reasons, worse!

Thank you for your PURE thoughts and keep up the good work.

get over it man. we do want to learn about proper originality and history, but it's an open discussion, and the discussion in a certain thread may evolve... when you talk with people do you cut them off if they start to morph the conversation into a slightly different topic? think about it.

...Yes I agree with you, and have noted that some Posts have gotten off the subject of the original POSTERs question, or comment. Seems like there are some people that have used these posts as a "chat line" and get way off the subject matter.I am sure that you don't want to have to police this forum as it cannot be any fun for you to have to do it.....SO for those of us who use and need this forum lets help out by keeping on the ,originality and history aspects of the 914. maybe WE should point this out when there is a post thats off the subject....thanks for the job you are doing.......

You are "dead nuts" right on!
Look, I know that I'm alienating some people against me. Don't care for it, but this is the job I signed on for - promoting ORIGINALITY and HISTORY of the 914.

We can discuss concours tips all day, but don't try to convince us that a conversion (for example)will ever be "concours" . Could be a nice show car, but not concours, since it isn't original.

I reiterate the purpose of this forum. Promotion of original 914s and the history that they bear. Restorations to proper original status are OK, and we would love to hear the stories.

Sorry to those who disagree, but you have an option! Have me removed! At which point I'll re-create my own originality forum.

Maybe we should have a vote(poll). You tell me, but in the mean time I'll close or move all new threads that do not meet forum criteria.
Pat

...OK......I vote to retain your ass as the moderator of this forum. I make a motion that the voting is closed.....hearing no objections.... voting is now closed. congratulations pat for "winning" as moderator of this forum. I was a technical inspector for, SCCA, (at the runoffs,) a I.M.S.A. technical inspector, and chief of technical inspection for the SVRA,and WMC for about the first 12-14 years of existance....It is necessary to have a qualified independant, non -politized...SOB....who will make a decision, and for the betterment(safety) of all participents have their decision be final. the competators appreciated this fact even if they had to make some changes or preperation that they did not expect. YOU are the MODERATOR ....now just do your damn job....and thanks.....

Pat, I didn't mean to upset you. I was a responder to the whole gauge thing. I was just trying to give the poor fella an idea he may not have thought about. I just hit view new posts and didn't realize it was in you forum. I think the whole rant was a little over the top, and a nicer way to handle it would have been a post just saying this is off-topic and will/has been moved to the garage. I understand you are trying to keep your forum clean from non original 914 stuff, thats what the garage is for. Alienating the riff-raff is not a productive way to keep the forum alive, the riff-raff may want to build an all original car one day. I know its not easy or popular sometimes to be in charge of something like this, so I will thank you for doing it and move on.

To be clear on this - being your target of regarding the gauges post - I think that you know Pat (as do Murrry & some others responding here), from both our various direct PMs & my past posts since "joining" 914world earlier this year....

...that I am clearly trying to do an original restoration of my early-73 914-2.0 to the condition as it was - or should have been as a factory original example, including items "mysteriously missing" from the Appearance & Performance Groups' options when I bought it "37 months old" in Dec. 1975. This to the extent of spending an extra several $1000's to replace & restore those "missing Items" - rather than just fixing it up as-is!

I have depended primarily on the Originality & History forum for guidance in this matter, which unfortunately is inextricably intertwined with the CW & concours d'elegance questions, because that is the current day arbiters of of the originality question in actual practice at the PCA & other similar events. To try to separate them is splitting microscopic hairs IMHO.

Your & others' advice here has actually reshaped my approach on my 914 from a repair/repaint to yet another non-original color with other non-OE mods contemplated - to this more purist approach - although I still want to drive it!

I have posted several other things here - such as SS HE & OE Muffler questions, to which you have responded & participated without this heavy-handed approach used on the gauges question. Furthermore, you yourself & other respected CWs here have posted other things which would have failed your "test" for O&H standards used on my gauges post, & reiterated above by your opening statement. That "feels" to newcomers to this originality & CW world, like a double standard between the old hands & less knowledgeable newbies. You know, we're only human & maybe don't always know how to best state something to get the proper result. We will make mistakes, but would far prefer a mentoring approach to guide us, over an approach of: !!!!

The time & effort expended by & informational needs of various posters & those who reply should be respected, and not shut down completely on a whim because a moderator has had a bad day, got rubbed the wrong way by a poster/replier, etc. Quite simply, there are much better ways to handle these things which are considerate of all parties involved. I agree with the above quoted comment, & stand by my similar comment above that there were at least 2 more helpful ways for you to have handled this post: either redirect the running commentary along proper lines without shutting-down nor moving it; or by moving it to the garage.

The latter would not have gotten my question answered in a way to preserve the originality of my 914. No offense to the excellent technical knowledge of the folks over at the "Garage" section, but for the most part they're not concerned too much with preserving the originality of 914s, as they are with doing updated & improved versions of 914s, AX/racers, etc.

You replied to my earlier SS HE question that those are generally accepted upgrades to 914's in the CW world, which was both very helpful & very reassuring to me!
So I have to also ask, why could you not have replied in a similar manner & helpful spirit to my gauges post as to what were available factory options, special orders & acceptable dealer accessories that would pass O&H & CW muster, as my post asked??

If concours d'elegance questions cannot be asked/answered at O&H - then where? And if it's to go elsewhere, then you & other CW experts need to put that aspect of your questions/posts & replies to others there, and not muddy the waters here for the rest of us neophytes please. However, I think that O&H is & has been the best place for it for the reasons stated above.

Out of respect for & deference to you and your expertise & wishes, I will attempt to re-craft wording for my gauges questions which will hopefully meet muster per your stated limitations - when I have time to do so. Hopefully then, you will provide guidance as needed to that subject matter, rather than simply foreclosing all further discussion.

Thank you for your future consideration in these matters.

Dude! Thank you for your support! I really hate shutting down some very intersting threads, or moving the, because I know that I'm p_issing the author off.

Thanks for your support - really!

Let's just stay on topic folks. I'll sleep better at night.
Pat

You didn't upset me. I just figured I had been lax in preserving the purpose of thi forum. No problem, let's just stick to the rules.
Pat

Pat.....as quoted from your 5/11/09 O&H Rules post (bold added by me for clarity) ~ see, I do try to try to read up on the rules:

"This forum is dedicated 100% to originality and the validated history of the 914.

I post this only because as of this date (May 11, 2009) we have been getting posts that aren't pertinent to the purpose of this forum.

We mean no ill will to those with other questions, but they will redirected to the Garage Forum if they are not based on originality or history of the 914.

Please post your items to the forum will you will get the most effective responses."

As per your own rules, if not pertinent then they should be posted to the Garage (or classifieds if an ad, etc.) - not closed & deleted. Nuff said on my part in this fiasco!

On just the opposite note - I came across this post/thread/whatchamacallit on the OE paint colors by year in the Garage, which I think is a very valid Nailed Thread both there & here at O&H, because folks shouldn't have to hunt for it when they need to do a resto repaint or touch-up:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=39488

What do think about it being nailed here??

Hope this helps out others!

Look, and this is NOT directed at you. And YOU are NOT a target.

I was asked 3+ years ago to moderate and keep on track this forum. In the beginning, it was a concours forum. That was quickly determined by the members to be NOT the appropriate purpose. The members wanted it geared to originality and history. It was my job to comply with the wishes of the masses.

BUT, and I mean But, concours issues are a secondary mainstay of this forum. Now, let's discuss "concours" in the context of this forum( notice, I said "discuss" - this isn't a police state!). And, you make a good point! I am not an expert in all years od 914's. But I can help with answers to questions I cannot answer.

Let's get this straight - I am NOT the KNOW ALL of all years 914's. In fact, my venue is somewhat narrow - but I have others I can depend on to answer just about everything.

You are my 914 buddy, and as long as we keep things on topic - we're cool!
Pat

OK Pat, I just re-posted a revised post asking about 1973 MY 914-2.0 Gauges & Originally available options, please check it over & advise me if I need to modify it any further?
Thanx!
Tom