....Well I was fortunate some few years ago to luck up on a no-brand silicone liquid that was like molassis...used it for every rubber part on my cars until it was gone......AND I HAVE FOUND....a product you need to be aware of a product I just discovered. I think It,s new on the market....here goes ...BLACK MAGIC -Titanium....it,s a tire shine product...Its a THICK silicone,almost a gel, and comes with a scrub brush applicator. This stuff is INCREDABLE. I scrubbed down my tires (washed them) several times,allowed them to dry, and in the warm sun applied this stuff to both sides of the tires. They look better than new....Then I started on the rubber bumper tops, and every other rubber part on the car.(914)...it,s been about 3 weeks since I treated the whole car, and the rubber everywhere looks just great!!!...I got clean rags, wiped down most of the rubber parts, which released the imbeded dirt and crud from the rubber. then reapplied it everywhere again. ALL this took about 1/4 of the bottle, which is 16 oz,s. This stuff really works, It soaks into the rubber making it softer, looks great and will last longer than anything I have ever used...

Murry - how about your source to buy & pix of your car?

...I am STILL working on LEARNING HOW to put pictures on the site.I am somewhat "computer challanged" and need a FEDERAL EDUCATION GRANT so I can go to school (on everone elses money). to learn how to do some of this shit...also looking into "bulldozer driving school" as a refresher course...............and FOUND this stuff ..TITANIUM...at AUTO ZONE. Believe me this stuff works better than I can discribe......

Thanx Murry, there's an Auto Zone just up the way from me!

I'm just as computer challenged an olf fart, & someone here referred me to the page link below on how to add pix here, so I'll "pay it forward" - no grant needed!

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=13637

I'll be waiting.....

Hey guys, remember that silicone on any paintwork will cost you a lot more if you ever need a panel respray - so be very, very careful with it & keep it on the rubber. Silicone will seep right through the paint layers, requiring panel fixes taken down to bare metal.

Sounds like a decent product, when used with care, but I still prefer good old glycerin. Does a great job, though nothing will prevent 30+ years of age from taking its due.. Glycerin will not cause panel problems, works really well, and is readilly available again, though in a somewhat embarrasing form.

Pat

How is that Wurth Rubber Treatment? ...does it have glycerin or silicone or what?

I've used that on my other cars' rubber for a couple of years now, but it's not cheap, & may not be wurth it (pun intended) if it does the same or a lesser job than cheaper glycerin.

BTW Pat - what form is it in that's embarrassing?

I'm stumped, because I thought plain ole glycerin was still available in the drug stores etc. in generic plastic bottles??

Another caution on the tire black is it has a black dye in it, IRRC from a similar product I have used from PP, & that stains the paint - then you have to use some work & cleaning stuff to get it off.

...This stuff..TITANIUM...is absolutely ....CLEAR.....and pats probably right, about keeping it off paint, but a good wax job should provide a barrier thats sufficant...and BTW....it provided a very nice finish protectant for the fuchs that I busted my ass on for weeks.(the backsides of those the wheels really appreciated the attention.)...It will cut off any oxidation of the bare aluminum I,m sure...and gave the refinished wheels that last little something...this stuff is so good you,ll have enough confidence to JAP SLAP your mother in law.

I tried that once....she slapped back!
Pat

....hmmm, a silicone rub down on the backside, eh!?

sorry Pat, couldn't resist, nor did you!

I just waant to make this clear....silicone-based products go right through waxes, right through topcoats...right down to the metal. Sneaky bastards!

My advice? Don't use it...proly too late though. So long as you don't need a "spot" paint, you're OK. But if you do......$$$$$
Pat

I was told that Peanut Oil was a good rubber treatment.

I'm sure the dust likes the "oil" part.

I experimented with an old bumper top that was very dry and ugly....after a couple coats of Peanut Oil. It looks pretty good, not perfect but good.

So if you don't live around a ton of dust or can cover your car; might be an option.

.02 cents. Tried it on old first!

....soooooo, what kind of Jelly did you use!

Seriously though - - what kind of smell does it give off, & does that give you any problems with the critters - raccoons, squirrels, rats, bee, flys, yellow jackets, etc. - on the occasions when you do have it open to the air??

I'd also think that when driven it would become a magnet for road grime as well as dust!?

My front bumper top looked real bad. Almost like someone had tried to paint it at one time. Took some 80 grit to it, then mothers back to black. Came out pretty good for a DD.

For the 1975 and '76 owners with the impact bumpers, I use a product called Turtlewax Blacktop. Looks like show polish, and is no longer made. This is the only product that I've found to work on those type bumpers. I recall someone in the past trying real black shoe polish with poor results. If anyone has a product currently available, I would appreciate a heads up, as my supply of Blacktop is almost gone.

As far a rubber treatment, I remove all the dirt and oxidation with a printing supply product called "Rubber Rejuvenator" from Prisco. We use it to clean and treat rubber printing press rollers. This is not available in any store- only from a printing supplier. I can provide the information for those that are interested. It's not cheap, and you have to buy a gallon but, I've used it on 50 year old rubber, and when you're done, it looks brand new. Then I treat with Griot's Garage Vinyl and Rubber treatment. While it's better than Armorall I'm still looking for the perfect dressing.

Dave

Dave, what are the details on that Prisco rubber rejuvenator & a source in SoCal if you know??

I can use it on the rollers on my 1990 Minolta 4300 copier, as well as on my 914 & other cars - all of which are 20+ now.

Geesh, looking at your 914 & 911 mileage, do you ever drive those poor neglected machines!

My 73 914-2.0 has 174k after sitting in my garages the last 24 years on blocks, the 88 Westy just rolled 200k over TG weekend, the BMer is 170+ & kids Honda is over 130k! unfortunately/fortunatly, we all have to drive our cars & I'm looking forward to having the 914 restored & driving again!

Thanx!
Tom

Tom,
Like Pat Garvey I'm a stickler for originality, which has prevented me from driving the pants off my cars. Part of my enjoyment is preserving what I have. You can't believe the positive reinforcement I get when I bring out the 914 and people ask me how long have I've owned the car, or who painted it. When I answer I'm the original owner and took delivery in December of 1975 and "Porsche" painted the car, they simply can't believe it! Nevertheless, most people, either in or out of the car hobby have a hard time grasping the limited driving thing. I try to draw an analogy to owning a boat; you only use it in the summer and on a nice day.

I think you will have a hard time buying this product on your own from CA. You would have to set up an account etc. etc. I can send you a small container from my stash. If you like it I can order a gallon through my company. Just IM me with your shipping address (street address only- no P.O. Boxes). It's about $21.00 a gallon plus shipping to me, plus shipping to you.


Dave

That rubber rejuvenator may not be legal to sell or have in possesion of in the state of California , a lot of printing supplies and products are not allowed into that state because of the EPA regs. As far as the product goes I have worked around it for years in the printing industry and can say it does what it says it will do.Another Prisco product that I have used is the metering roller cleaner , beats acetone hands down for removing asphaltum based undercoating, especially if it's not too old it will wipe right off, otherwise a brisk rubbing with a rag or plastic bristled brush will do the trick.I just wonder how it would work on tires as far as preserving the rubber compound and slow age cracking.
My $.02

Jaxdream

My car is the garage and disassembled. The normal dusty garage hasn't caused any issues with the peanut oil grabbing the dust out of the air. It has moistened the rubber and it has a "new" feel. No Bugs are attracted to it either. In an open garage, I don't have flies, wasps, or insects getting on it or swarming. ??? It was a suggestion an old car restorer told me to try. I've been pleased, so far.

Since, I haven't driven mine....YET, I won't know on road grime. I'm hoping for this spring to have it as a driver. I'm sure I will get around to buying a replacement for my SIX once I have the whole body painted. But for now, it works. Will see if I can get pics posted.

For those who are concerned, you can download an MSDS sheet which will list the ingredients from the Prisco website. I think the metering roller cleaner is more hazardous than anything we've discussed. Again, check out the corresponding MSDS sheets and you decide. All I know is the rubber rejuvenator makes the old rubber look "original"

Dave

[quote name='Mr.242' date='Dec 4 2009, 08:02 AM' post='1246331']
[quote name='Tom_T' post='1245922' date='Dec 3 2009, 12:07 PM']
I'm sure I will get around to buying a replacement for my SIX once I have the whole body painted. But for now, it works. Will see if I can get pics posted.
[/quote]

When you do, check out Mark at Mikey914 for rubber bits here for both front & rear top pads, as well as his other seals which are mostly NLA now.

I saw them on a restored 72 at a local PCA gathering last month, and they are indistinguishable from the OEM ones - he had OEM rear & repro front, which are NLA.

I got an OEM rear from PP a few months back, but may go with Mark's anyway, because he uses non-corroding/non-rusting (relatively speaking) metal parts on them (SS on the top pads) & the rubber/PE is a better product today than the originals. Front has to be these as the others are NLA & AA is now using Mark's, but he has good pricing here for the 914world folks.

Likewise, for the seals he uses more expensive but non-rusting Aluminum inserts to clamp it onto the body part in question, rather than the rustable steel OEM type. He also makes the NLA cowl "Tee-seals".

Thanx for the offer Dave, let me check those MSDS later & ask my local printer if they can get it locally, or if it's banned by "The People's Republic of Kaulifornia".

As to cars, mileage, use & disuse - no negatives intended, just 2 different philosophies, neither being mutually exclusive - not do either have more or less commitment to originality. Not being a CW/show person in the past, I think what you're talking about is PCA's "Preservation Class" of C'd'E, vs. those of us who weren't a fortunate to get a 914 new, & had to drive our cars as a DD for some time - so we have to "Restore" - both account for a commitment to Originality.

I recall a 914 which George Hussey had to cut out of a basement where it had sat for 20 or more years, which had something like 20k mi on it as "time capsule", & others which are purchased but never driven or very little. IMHO - that's an interesting item for a museum or time capsule, but a waste of a true engineering marvelwhich was made to be driven - at least some.

IIRC - Pat used his 72 914 for many years as his DD, & has had it repainted at least once after she was relegated to "garage queen". Yours with 24k in 35 years is only an average of less than 700 mi per year - which is extraordinarily low unless she was stored for a number of years without any driving. I had a buddy with a new 1970 914-4 with similar rare use & low milage whose RED paint was still showroom fresh, as were the inside of the trunks & fuel tank area which you could eat off of!!!! ....different strokes for different folks.

When my 73 2L is repaired, restored & running again - with a commitment to originality with a few deviations for durability or where NLA (eg: SS HEs, repro bumper top pad, NLA seals, etc.), I intend to it some few 1000 miles per year, but probably well under 5k/yr. For me - looking & polishing & showing my 914 baby is just not enough, without the joy of driving it a bit too.

Plus I'm an odd one out in that I've only owned 6 cars in my 57 years life - driving since 15-1/2 in the mid-60's (not counting my parents' cars on which I learned)! If you compare the mileages & years of those cars listed below, you'll see that they too are still considered very low mileage cars, because we keep commuting to an almost non-existent minimum now & were always lower than avereage, even with annual 2-6k XC trips in all of them.

IMHO - that does NOT make myself &/or others whose choose to drive their 914s, 911s & other classic cars as less committed to originality! So keep an open mind to those of us "low life" who choose to driver our "fun-teens"!!!

Tom
While I subscribe to the minimal driving/preservation group I am envious of those that have the compassion, fortitude and time to do a complete restoration. And if some custom parts or procedures get added in the process, hey you're the owner, so go for it. I never ever pass judgement on someone's car or how they present it. It's a free country. That being said I am more interested in the originality and history thread- that's why I post on it. Not a knock on the customizers- just not my cup of tea.

Getting back to the Rubber Rejuvenator- If you have any trouble obtaining some, just let me know. I would be happy to help. It really makes the rubber look "original", and you know how expensive NOS or repop pieces go for!

Let me know how you make out.

By the way, I put 10,000 miles on my car the first year I owned it and 14,000 miles since then. That's the result of joining PCA and getting the concours "bug." When you spend 3 months detailing a car, you tend to hesitate to rack up the miles or you will be spending another three months. I know, it's nuts, but it's fun to me.

Dave

Dave, do you think that would work well to clean the factory pvc undercoating in the wheel wells? I tried the Griots rubber cleaner product which worked better than other cleaners, but your's sounds like it might be better yet. If so, put me down for a gallon How bad are the fumes with this stuff? Do you need a respirator when using it?
Thanks,
Tod

Tod,
It's not really going to cut something like that, otherwise it would disintegrate the rubber printing rollers that it was designed to rejuvenate. It just removes the oxidized rubber. I suggest posting the question on the PCA national website. Someone must have a better method for easier removal.

Dave

Dave, I was looking at cleaning the rubber on the wells, not removing it. Thanks.

the glycerin is a fine product for helping to preserve the aging seals on our cars and makes installing new seals into chanels and tight spots a breeze. it's legal, relatively cheap, and available at your local Wallgreens in non-supository form, a bottle. the small bottle will last a long time.

k

Tod,
Are you talking about the seam seal?

Dave

Dave, the black undercoating that was applied to the car. It's on the entire undercarrige and on the wheel wells. Looks like the factory option product. I assume it is.

...well guys... it,s been several months since I found and started using "titanium."..silicone treatment...which I still recommend. amazingly MY PAINT has not fallen off,discolored, or attracted flys. The rubber is getting softer,and the tires still look great. maybe my technique of application ...which excludes dribbling it everywhere, and using it as a polishing agent for the paint has something to do with it. ...

Tod,
You better post the question on what to use with the PCA website, or contact John Paterek. The rubber rejuvenator I'm talking about is more for soft rubber like door seals etc. Undercoating is pretty hard, especially after all these years.

Make sure you post what you come up with, for the rest of us.

Dave

For me, I use Mother's Back to Black. It makes my 76 big bumpers look brand new. I took my time rubbing it in, rubbed it off and a week later did it again.....

Thanx Dave, I'll let you know on the rubber rejuvenator stuff if I dead-end out here.

BTW - I'm not a "customizer" & am putting my 73 2L back to the was it was when it left the factory, including "recreating" the set of Fuchs alloys, fog lights & center console/gauges which had been removed by the dealer &/or OO/PO before I got it in 12/75.

However, once I fix it up - I do plan to drive it more than a couple of hundred miles a year to CW shows, & may even show it a few times myself "before it gets too dirty", as I'm not one to spend 3 months a year detailing a car never to use it.

I've always liked the 914 because it gets more "smiles per mile" than most cars, esp. in sunny SoCal!!!

That's all I was saying, that those who drive their 914s a bit more than you can also be equally committed to originality - they're not mutually exclusive. I also agree with the posting here in O&H, and do so mostly here myself.

Tod, the factory undercoating was PVC & very rare, and MAY show on the COA - if PCNA's records are correct & if the persong doing the COA reads the codes correctly. You can check it visually & tactily to confirm, as well as MAYBE with your COA.

I thought mine may have been the factory undercoating, but when a PCNA Feild Tech Mgr (Rick Perkins) was out here this past week checking mine for the recalls & COA problems. He's an old timer around the 914s in the original days, plus had restored a 74 2L himself in the early 90's - so he knows them better than most with Porsche today.

We were able to confirm that mine was a dealer or other aftermarket undercoating by finding small areas of overspray of the coating where the factory wouldn't have done it that way. In my case it was traces on the 2 rubber air cooling redirection flaps just forward of the engine on the underbody.

So check around yours to look for the telltale signs of it being done after the car was assembled, to tell if it was factory or aftermarket/dealer, as well as if it's a wax based or rubberized material, as the PVC has/had a different "feel" to the material (mine is more rubbery as well).

However, for the strict/purist CWs out there - this is another area where I will undercoat it again for the peace of mind alone, after sinking all these resto $$$$$$s into rust repairs etc. on mine! ....cheap insurance IMHO, just like the stainless heat exchangers!!

What is the consistency of Back to Black? Solid, liquid, spray?

Dave

Tom and others....I asked the question some time ago, about ..WHAT is the best UNDERCOATING that I could apply , hopefully out of rattle cans, and no one answered. I was hoping to detail up my original undercoating and have it blend to the extent possable. additionally I was hoping it would be somewhat pliant/ compliant and not dry hard as a brick......thanks for any insight,

Try this product from Wurth:

https://shoponline.wurthusa.com/wurthusa/se...alog/group.jsp/

Dave

Try this product from Wurth:

https://shoponline.wurthusa.com/wurthusa/se...alog/group.jsp/

Dave

Dave any product like back to black, you would NOT want to use on YOUR bumper covers. It's good for ones that are faded and oxidized. More of a dye type product I believe. The Griots tire dressing would work well for you. It's a very low gloss finish that is not sticky like other tire products. You can get it in their rubber cleaning kit. Their tire/rubber cleaner worked the best on my silver car's pvc factory undercoating. I'll use it again on the red car being you think that print product roller cleaner isn't suiteable. I tried Steve's 409 suggestion and several other products as well. Griots required a fraction of the effort and achieved the best results. Followed it up with the tire dressing and it looked brand new. No road grime stuck to it either. I'll do some before and after on the red car with it. Won't be till closer till Spring time though.

Dave,
I use the Turtle Wax stuff too. For years!

But, there must be something contemporary to replace it. Still have ONE unopened can. Hmmm, maybe I should put it up for auction.... NOT.

Aside from the jokes, lets remember that these bumper tops are not pure rubber. The rubber content is minimal, so preservatives need to match the content. It's not the cleaning that's important (to a degree), it's the preservation. Quite frankly, the Turtle Wax things is just a dressing, though it protects for a good period. The Griot product is pretty good, but only after you strip away the years of other products. Then, after Griot treatment, it looks smeared. In my case, probably because of years (many) use of the Turtle Wax product.

I'm still searching for the answer. Maybe it's new tops. A certain aftermarket supplier on this forum had manufactured "new" bumper tops & they may be the answer. I bought a front one (though I didn't need it), and it is far superior to the original piece. So, I bought a rear too. Nice thing about these bumper tops is that the internal metal is now stainless. Last you should need to buy & they are dead on!
Pat

Pat I had very good luck with their tire dressing product when using the applicator that came with it (foam pad). Requires a very minute amount to avoid the smears. If you use too much of the product, you'll defenitly get them.

Tod,

We need to make certain that the newcomers know what you're talking about.

First, are you talking about the compound that the factory coated the wheel wells with BEFORE painting them? Or, are you talking about the coating (black) that was usually placed by the dealers ABOVE the painted surface?

Neither was rubber-based. Both were tar based, though the factory Body Schutz product was made to hold paint. Schutz is easily made "pliable" with coats of mineral spirits or plain old WD40. Actually, the same is true for cars that were Ziebart treated (very popular in the 70's). Cleans up & softens with treatment - I use wd40.

The Body Schutz product is still available & recommended, but it is nor rubber based.
Pat

Pat to clairify, it was the black coating put on either by the dealer or the factory as an option, after the paint. Have to get a COA to determine who did it. It's certinaly not the Ziebart that's on there. I'll try to get some shots so you see what I mean. I guess it's possible it's tar, but seems to be more of a rubbery compound.

I saw the Mark/Mikey914 bumper top last month on the yellow 72 of Andy's at the roll bar vinyl question thread which I started, & I couldn't tell the difference between his repro front & OEM rear. I have an OEM rear which I think I'll end up selling & getting the repro F&R for the same reasons Pat stated about SS, plus Mark said they have a higher & better quality rubber content. Unfortunately, unlike Pat - I must put new ones on mine now to repair that past F/R accident damage!

Pat, is the Ziebart the older wax based undercoating that came out in the 60's?

What/where is the source for body shutz?

Both Wurth & 3M & some other "modern" black "rubberized" undercoatings have been recommended here & by others with whom I've spoken personally. These may offer superior protection to stones/etc. & rust/water than the original undercoatings (factory & dealer) due to improved materials.

Since the have the same "look", is there any reason not to use the superior product(s)?

...and - as Murry asked - which one(s) is/are best??

Of course, with this group, these may be like that old joke about asking a room full of 10 lawyers for their "opinion" & getting 100!!!!

Here's a shot of the undercoating I was refering to. When I have more time, I'll use some of the Griots rubber cleaner on it so you can see how well it works. The shot is alittle blown out due to the camera flash.

Click to view attachment

Hey All -

I just talked to my Minolta independent copier repair guy today cuz my 1980 EP4300 just gave up the ghost, but asked him about the Rubber Rejuvenator that Dave Cheek was mentioning above, cuz I remembered that he used to use it on the rubber rollers in the copiers.

He said that he, Konica-Minolta & all of the other major copier makers stopped using it a number of years ago (even before CA made it illegal), because over long term use it made the rubber on the rollers harder, although in the short term it did soften them up. He didn't know if it would do the same to auto rubber seals & parts, but warned caution.

So those who get it may want to try it on some extra rubber bits first for several applications to see if that happens on the 914 rubber seals too, or go to a more mild rubber treatment.

He said that they all now use diluted 50:50 Simple Green with distilled water to clean the copier rollers.

...hee-hee...I just connect that product in my warped mind with "Soilant Green" - for those old enough &/or are old movie buffs to know what I'm talking about!

Tod,
A COA will probably NOT list any rustproofing, factory or dealer.

So, let's get the the facts together on early '70's Ziebart. That way, we can segregate the Ziebart from the factory coatings.

Ziebart was tar-based. May have had some wax tossed into it also, but I don't know. What I do know is that a Ziebart treated car had numerous holes drilled into body cavities and structiral parts, to allow spraying the compound into them.

On a 914, these areas included:
Rear door jambs
Front and rear structural hood elements
Sail panels

Holes were drilled, sprayed into & then capped with plugs. The entire rest of the underbody was sprayed with the same substance. Most cars that have had the treatment still have it on suspension pieces, because the folks at Ziebart thought they were doing a good thing (which they were).

Ziebart was not a fools folly - it worked, and still does today. Thiers was a well thought out process that actually helped protect cars, particularly in the rust belt of this country.

Now, with that said, the factory wheel well coating was a Schutz compound, which is rubber based and paintable.

Both compounds, after these many years, are renewable and paintable. See my earlier text on renewing.

Now,the easy way to determine a Ziebart-treated car.......look for the yellow/black/red plastic plugs covering the drilled holes.

Hope this helps.
Pat

Tom,

Just to clarify.....
The Rubber Rejuvenator is used to remove dirt and oxidized rubber. Then you should always apply your favorite vinyl and rubber treatment/preservative afterwards to protect it from drying out.

Dave

Thanx for clarifying Dave, as I'm sure they didn't do that after cleaning the rollers!

He also confirmed that it wasn't "legal" anymore here in the PRC (Peoples Republic of Caulifornia), so I don't think that I can use ithere, unless maybe I went out of state & brought it back for "personal use" in an obscure small bottle!

Thanx for clarifying that Pat. I recall the Ziebart treatment system now, but would've never allowed anyone to punch holes in my 914, esp. with it being overkill out here in Calif., where only sand & cinders were ever used on the mountain roads & high passes with snow.

And yes, I did take mine up there with ski racks to ski, and was "caught" in snow on the Grapevine & Cajon Pass a few times as well!

So back in the 70's & early 80's it saw some snow, but has/had an aftermarket/dealer undercoating which looks similar to Tod's Red 73 in the pix above.

I'll need to remove all of my undercoating to go to bare metal & repair & re-prime/repaint everything, and would like to retreat it afterwards with the best available rubberized undercoating, which I'd probably not paint over & leave black cuz I like that look in the wheel wells on a white/light color car).

Is the Porsche body schutz the same product as the Wurth one which someone mentioned above, or a different product?

...if different, where can one get the original Porsche body schutz & by what name??

...& is it better, the same or not as good as either the Wurth & 3M etc. "modern" products for their intended purpose of rock/gouge & rust prevention??