I placed this post in the Garage as well, but maybe it's more appropriate here. So, I'm installing my wiring harness (4 cylinder), it is a european harness. I'm making this assumption based on one main observation (although there are others that seem to support it). The observation- this is a new harness (unfortunately I do not have the part number... sad.gif ), there are NO wires going to what would be the side marker lights. Nothing (absolutely certain) has been cut, I can trace all wires and there never were any side marker light wires.

So, my problem is this, there seems to be no wiring coming out of the harness in the passenger compartment area for a fog light switch, there are, however, wires for fog lights up near the front bumper area where they should be. The main wire (white with a yellow stripe) enters the passenger compartment area and goes to a relay, which then jumps directly to the combination relay, from there there are no wires that would normally go to a switch.

I know that there was some different functionality with the Euro fog light operation, but what exactly was the difference? Do the fog lights turn on any time the headlights are on, meaning no need for a fog light switch? Do I need a special head light switch?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!! biggrin.gif


Dan

yes certainly no side marker light wires but that is easily overcome by stringing a pigtail harness from the parking light side of the front turn signal the grey with black on the left and the grey with red on the right (pass)
The driving light harness is wired into your euro harness certainly and if you look where the headlight and emergency flasher switches are you will notice the gey with red the black with blue and brown female 90 degree spades that connect to the fog light switch. Everything else is hard wired in for the fog lights but you will notice that they will work with the high beams rather than the low beams like the usa cars

Well, my problem is that I do not have the gray with red, black with blue and brown wires. Andy posted in the garage that the harness may not have been wired for a switch, meaning I need to wire it myself...

Huh?

I have to dis-agree with the Dr. ...
I have never ever seen a German car where the fog lights are wired to work with the high beams. Ever.

The fog lights only work with the low beams and will shut off automatically when you switch to the high beams.
Andy

Dear Sir Andy,

I must say, that this thread about fog lights is certainly one records.
1st. about my car. It is a 914/6 #9140430841 delivered in Germany, and brought back over by an Army serviceman in the 80's.

Full blown Euro model. No BS here. I have owned the car for the last 12 years now. Stripped down to bare, and ground up resto.

The Euro cars had Driving lights on them in liew of fog lights. My car had these still on it when I bought it. I also noticed that there was no switch for the driving lights, nor was there a hole in the vinyl dash fascia as if there might have originally been one that some one had earlier removed. I quickly bought a fog light switch to make up for this missing switch only to find out that there was no loose pigtail plugs for the switch to plug in to. I spent many an hour going back and forth to my '74 2ltr USA 914 to compare the wiring behind the dash, and shortly found that no one had cut or mangled any of the original wiring in my Euro 6'r.
As it stands, the Euro 6's driving lights are wired right to the headlights. Mine come on when the High Beams are activated not low beams. They are off when the low beams are on. That makes for one bright viewing area at night. Also, on my car, the driving lights are wired for a flash-to-pass feature. They activate if I pull the dimmer switch toward me when the headlights are off, or on low beam.
I thought the same as this threads author, that some one monkeyed with the wiring. Now I feel more secure that the Euro cars were wired different, probably due to different lighting laws.
I also noticed that there also is no plug for the switch on the brake master cylinder either.

Ron

That Sir, was my point ...

I know for a fact that the law in Germany does prohibit the use of fog-lights with your high-beams. That is the current law and that was the law in 1970.

Fog-lights are wired to only run with the low beams. They must shut off when you switch to the high beams.

Every car i ever owned in Germany was wired that way. It's the law.


Note that i don't use the word "driving lights" on purpose as they were NOT driving lights from the factory. Ever.



PS: If you cars lights work differently, someone along the way must have changed the wiring.

PPS: If you've ever driven in thick fog, you would know that high beams are completely useless in fog. They blind you. Having the fog lights come on with the high beams only completely negates the purpose of having fog-lights.

Interesting. My Swiss car #1113 has driving lights that will only come on with the high beam, and it does have a switch on the dash. I can flash them when in low beam as well.

Go figure.

If you can flash the fog-lights, someone did indeed change your wiring ...

http://www.jwesteng.com/porsche/914/fog.htm

Not I, and I seriously doubt that the prior owner (a doctor) did it. When the weather warms up, I'll try to trace the wiring.

A question for Andy. If there were not 914 driving lights from the factory, why are there driving light lenses which install in place of the fog light lenses? I've seen 'em, I've owned a few, and I've sold them to people looking specifically for them. 914 631 913 11, "light-diffusing lens, white, for additional headlamp".

BTW, although there are lots of folks here on the World site who rewire their fog lights to work independently of the low beams, it's illegal here in the US, too, and always has been. Using fog lights when there's no fog actually diminishes your ability to see at the limit of your headlights (Google it!) and serves mostly to piss off other drivers. If I could shoot out the fog lights of every SUV/Pickup/BMW/Cadillac drivin' moron, I'd be broke from buying ammo ..........

The Cap'n

He's not talking about fog lights, he's talking about the driving lights...
( My Euro 6 had them too... )

Since they come on with the high beams (when enabled by the dash switch) of course they flash when on low beams - just like the high beams do...

And yes, they flash even when the headlights are down.
The high beams come on when the headlights are down too - just it's hard to see. But flash on, they do.

It's all the same relay, it just depends on if the 'enable' wire goes to the high-beam (driving) or low-beam (fog) circuit. It's on the wiring diagram...

Well i'll be damned ...

German cars, especially of that period didn't have "driving lights" they way American cars have them.

The only thing i can think of is that because the headlights were otherwise hidden, Porsche added a additional driving light option to replace the fog-lights???

I can honestly say i have never seen this on any other German car of that vintage.

Time to whip out my PET copy and do some digging ...

If you are thinking about 'driving light' in the context of 'running light' - that's not it.

These are (very) high-intensity clear-lens supplemental pencil-beam headlights.

I've seen a couple pair come through the classifieds here. I wish I'd had the foresight to take the pair from my car... I might have a picture but I doubt it'll show much... IIRC they were Hella lights and took an H1 lamp.

And since they came on only with the high beams (except, of course, with the flash-to-pass activated) the headlights wouldn't be hidden when they were in use.

But there is that flash-to-pass function, which /6's mightta needed on the Autobahn, and contemporary 1,7's maybe not...

This is a nice rationalization, but I expect the practical reason is that all the stalk, relay, and headlight function was 911 bits on the /6's, and they just didn't change anything from the way the 911's worked.

I would love to see if a little-known 911 headlight mode made it into Euro /6's -- when the parking (city) lights are on (first detent on the headlight switch, illuminates a green dot in the cluster) the 'flash-to-pass' illuminates the _low beams_. I thought this was quite clever and I've never seen it documented - I stumbled onto it one night...

These? I bought these Euro lights off Gerold last year.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Maybe. I think so.
I don't remember the vertical lines, but then it's only been 25 years since I last saw mine, so I couldda forgotten a small detail.

At the time I had no idea how rare and special they were, and I always thought I'd be getting the car back 'real soon' ...

Anyway, when Gerold put those up I rember thinking they were just like mine...

I've only ever seen them with these lenses - I thought Eric has a set for his GT build with the yellow lens? The outer diameter of the housing is the same as the North American version but the lens itself is a larger diameter than the NA lights.

[quote name='SirAndy' date='Mar 21 2011, 01:06 PM' post='1447194']
[quote name='RON S.' post='1447137' date='Mar 21 2011, 10:19 AM']probably due to different lighting laws.[/quote]
That Sir, was my point ...

I know for a fact that the law in Germany does prohibit the use of fog-lights with your high-beams. That is the current law and that was the law in 1970.

Fog-lights are wired to only run with the low beams. They must shut off when you switch to the high beams.

Every car i ever owned in Germany was wired that way. It's the law.


Note that i don't use the word "driving lights" on purpose as they were NOT driving lights from the factory. Ever.



PS: If you cars lights work differently, someone along the way must have changed the wiring.


[quote name='Jasfsmith' date='Mar 24 2011, 06:33 AM' post='1448474']
[quote name='SirAndy' post='1448164' date='Mar 23 2011, 05:18 PM']
[quote name='Jasfsmith' post='1447545' date='Mar 22 2011, 06:23 AM'] I can flash them when in low beam as well.[/quote]
If you can flash the fog-lights, someone did indeed change your wiring ...

http://www.jwesteng.com/porsche/914/fog.htm


[/quote]

Not I, and I seriously doubt that the prior owner (a doctor) did it. When the weather warms up, I'll try to trace the wiring.
[/quote]


[quote name='SirAndy' date='Mar 24 2011, 07:30 PM' post='1448734']
[quote name='ArtechnikA' post='1448681' date='Mar 24 2011, 05:12 PM']He's not talking about fog lights, he's talking about the driving lights...
( My Euro 6 had them too... )[/quote]
Well i'll be damned ...

German cars, especially of that period didn't have "driving lights" they way American cars have them.

The only thing i can think of is that because the headlights were otherwise hidden, Porsche added a additional driving light option to replace the fog-lights???

I can honestly say i have never seen this on any other German car of that vintage.

Time to whip out my PET copy and do some digging ...

[/quote]



Andy,
I wasn't trying to BS anyone with my inquiry. I am glad my response has generated some good discussion about the wiring issue. Attached are a photo of the "DRIVING LIGHTS" and the left side dash of my car.

This car is an original -6 numbered 9140430841. I bought as a rusting hulk off a local car lot back in 1998. The PO was a former Army man who brought the car back over here from Germany when he returned to Fort Hood Texas. The car is a full Euro car, every detail that separates the Euro market cars from the American market ones was in place when I got it. I actually feel lucky having a "Different kinda car".
I will repeat myself in saying that I personally removed the dash wiring harness during my restoration, and I actually WAS looking for evidence of someone butchering up the wiring harness to make the lights function the way they do. However, I witnessed NO evidence of any kind of tampering at all. All factory connections and taping is INTACT. All factory leads are only long enough to reach their plug in destinations on the light switch and the emergency flasher switch. Again, when I got the car there was NO hole in the vinyl dash fascia to indicate that a fog light switch had ever been there and been removed. When The car is running, and I pull the turn signal switch toward me, the driving lights will come on.
I must believe that it is originally the way it was wired when it left the factory. At least I know I'm not alone in this setup.


Ron

Hey Rich,
Here's the pics you are asking for of the little green dash light.
Parking lights on, green dasah light is on.

Ron

Thanks - but that part I knew.

It will be difficult to test the interesting part, because it occurs to me that 914 headlights retract at the 'parking light' setting...

However (this will probably require two people...) the question is - when the parking lights are on and you pull back the flash-to-pass - what lights up? it _should_ be the _low beam_ lights.

Actually, this could be easier to test than I initially thought...

Enable the driving lights. Set the light switch to 'all off'. Verify that the driving lights light up when you pull the flash-to-pass. The high beams will light up too, but they won't raise. Pull the headlight switch out to the park position - the the 'green dash light' position. This time when you pull the flash-to-pass, the driving lights should _not_ light up (and if you can tell by looking into the headlight bucket, the low beams will.

Rich,
I just walked outside and checked. With the key on or off, light switch off, Flash-to Pass and Hi-beams come on with a pull of the lever, and Hi beam dash indicator also is on. With the key on, parking lights on, Flash-to-Pass does NOT engage.

All these years I've asked various people about the way my lights work, and the standard answer has almost always been that someone has rewired it to behave the way it does.

I have always believed the factory wired it the way THEY wanted it to work.

Also, if you notice in my dash pic, you'll see the pull lever on the left. I've removed my headlight motors, and converted the system over to the GT Headlight pull kit. But, I do remember that my headlights did NOT raise, when I would use the Flash-to-Pass during daylight operation.

Thanks for the lesson.

Ron