How do you folks figure out what your cars can do in a safe surrounding?

Now that my car is driving, I'd like to find out how it corners, where it can be pushed, and where it can not. I guess a big parking lot would work, I know I don't want to do this on the open street. And I'd prefer not to learn my car on an auto-X course.

I'm interested in doing things like Drivers Ed and Auto-X, but I want to get an idea of my limits w/o trees, poles, other cars or babies in prams getting in my way - and preferably in an environment where Johnny Law won't ticket me for it either.

in a factory built and balanced car, I figure they have done the basic handling testing. In my car, none of that has been done yet, and I am driving it like a pussy cause I don't know when the back end will come loose or the front end is going to push, or what will happen when the wheels lock under emergency stop conditions, etc.

Zach

A large parking lot works just fine. You can even make your own imaginary skid pad!

Not that i would ever do such a thing ...
Andy

I will jump up on my soap box.

........blah blah blha

Go to the Autox.

Rich

I agree an AX is a great and safe place to learn your car. However, in a pinch, I have used several housing developments where the roads have been laid, but no houses have been built yet. There are several near me, not sure what your area is like.

I dive mine down country roads a lot... I just test it little by little when it's safe and prudent.

I already had a talk with a local cop tho. found out my speedo is off. I'd slowed down in town to about 40(speedo), but he said I was doing 47... either way it was a 35 zone... luckily he let me off. also luckily he didn't see me on the FM road I had just come off of doing 80 on the speedometer

I dis-agree ...

I don't think a competitive event is a good place to do the initial car setup.
It's a event. It's fast paced. It's hectic. You'll have your hands full just to keep up with the event.


On the race car, we go to open track days for the final dial in of the car. But even then, we've already done the initial setup before we get there.


A open space where you can set your own pace is the way to go.
Andy

Big Corporate parking areas. By me, it's Sony, Mercedes, Hertz, BMW...they have huge parking lots...and they are surrounded by woods so on a Sunday morning, I won't be pissing off the locals.
...doesn't hurt knowing the local police officers too...

They held one of these out on Long Island a year or so back:

http://www.evoschool.com/

Might want to look in to if they are planning to have another in the area. I did the one on LI and it was great, a seasoned autoxer drives your car with you in it, rides with you, gives you tips and lets you go at it. You get to drive the course a pile of times, much more than if you were at an autox event.

Just an idea.

-Chris

One one of my first drives in my 914 (I'd probably had it a week), I stopped off in a commuter rail parking lot. It was a Saturday and commuter rail only runs during the week, so the lot was empty.

Just before I started tearing the place up, something caught my eye... in the far corner of the lot was a van. A county police van.

I pulled to the side of the driveway and stopped the car, pretended to adjust my outside mirrors, and then departed quietly.

Driving in the parking lots can land you with a trespassing citation (ask me how). Drivers Ed is the only way. It is not a hectic as AX and is there for you to learn. Many have wet areas for skid control testing. I liked the skid pad at the 05 WCC. In Jim's car I never broke it loose and had to back off because I kept getting too close to the guy in front of me. I do the little by little thing, but you have dear to contend with at the least. You could always let me drive it and find the envelope

Follow in a support vehicle at a safe distance . . .

Ya, I thought about that, but it is his car

While an AX is a bit hectic, driving fast or at the limits in any public setting has risks both physically and lawfully. An AX is set up to allow people to drive fast and corner hard. So to my brain, it's really the only safe place to test a car. You have to mentally 'write off' the event as a learning session and not worry about time, but it's the only place I'd try to find my limits.

Chris, riding with me is like riding a motorcycle, you have to lean when I do I lean away from the pass side, you lean away

Potomac Region of PCA offers a High Performance Driving Clinic, HPDC, twice a year at Summit Point. Actually, it may be a requirement to complete before participating in Potomac DE's. HPDC includes skid pad, track time, ... to learn your car.

Remember those bruises across your chest/shoulder? Think that seatbelt helped ya do that "leaning". Pass side belt unfortunately doesn't help with a "lean" in that direction. Why I basically had no seat belt rash, but plenty of "window rash". Ahh memories.

I agree. Autocross seat time is invaluable for learning the car. As far as streets, I have a test course where I stay reasonably close to the real speed limits and laws and get a feel for how well the car is doing. Since I live in an area that is littered with guys like Steve Nieslony I write off every autocross event as a learning experience The problem with using a DE as a set up plan is that it costs a lot of money to enter and what if you discovered there was a problem after you spend $300+ to enter?

While "finding your limits" and "learning your car" are both great things to do, for me they only marginally relate to "setting up your car".

Maybe i'm misreading this, but initial car setup is about just that, setting up the car. It's not about you learning to drive.


If i change suspension components i don't want to wait until the next AX to find out what it's going to do to my car!
Setting up a car correctly involves a lot of wrenching, scales, alignment tools etc. All of which requires TIME, the one thing you don't have at a competitive event like a AX.

At a AX, you either drive or work. There's no time to do any kind of meaningful car setup.
Andy

local PCA skills day,,,, even better then AX

see Dick test his car
see Dick test his car in a parking lot
see Dick hit a light pole

Dont be a Dick

pretty much everything is closed down for winter,,maybe this spring you can find a skills day

good luck!! have fun just cruz`n tell spring

I like the large corporate parking areas. You don't have to go crazy or fast.

Pick a point in the center, or often times there are a few light poles, and do a constant radius turn around the pole. As you increase speed following the same line you will find the cars limits and how it responds to throttle.

Accelerating and decelerating doing figure 8s will give you a real good idea of what the car will do.

B

did you just call me a Dick? It was a telephone pole, btw.

Maybe a little

All you PA guys... does Hersheypark chain up their parking lots during the offseason?

I dont know, but it is right across from the police academy, heavily patrolled and has no coverage. Bad idea.

Just thinking out loud...
Has anyone ever called local law enforcement, explained that they just finished building a car and wanted to find a safe (and legal) place to test it, and seen what they had to say?

The local big parking lot near me always has Po-po presence (its a high school) and I don't want the local kids knowing my car as street race bait...

There is a lot I know of out in Baltimore that I used to play roller tag on (back in my skater days) but its probably too small for a car test site...

Zach

I'll also look into the HPDC in the spring. That will probably be the next time I am actually driving again any way.

Zach

They might just know of a place. I know the local PD here uses part of the same old air-strips that are used for AX to train their drivers.

Or, find a rich friend with a round driveway in front of his house ...
Andy

no i didnt but thats funny as hell

It would seem that a large parking lot is the ticket. However, you'll end up with a ticket if you don't get the OK from the owner.

Maybe I am confused.
I thought he wanted to test the limits of his car in a safe place....no trees, no kids.
If its for initial suspension tuning and setup...certainly an autox is not a great venue for that.

If its for testing the limits of the car...autox is perfect.
I got a call when I was posting....so I made it short.

I have brought all my kids to the autox. Its a great place to learn.
Its a venue (if you forget about the competition) to find out where the line is.
The line that when you cross it...you loose control.

That line is both car and driver dependant.
If you spin at an autox all you hurt is your ego.
Its a fantastic place to learn.

The key Zach.....spin the car.
Spin it two ways.

Head into a sharp corner while braking and feel how the weight shifts forward and your ass end gets super light...then you spin.

Spin it a second way...same corner.
DO NOT BRAKE.
keep pushing that corner with no brakes till the car spins.

Thos two tests will teach you what it feel like right BEFORE it spins.

The fix for both is different, but can be learned.

Rich

Hey Zach,

we could be the parking lot bandits. Never the same lot twice, we sneak out at midnight twice a week (always change the days) strike the parking lot with force (have fun) 30 min later we break out in oppisite directions



...theyll never know what hit em

Hmmm. If I remember the property configuration correctly, Zach could pave an asphalt circle around his house...

That would be one cool skidpad!

I called the local PD. The receptionist was very confused, but polite. She gave me the number of some traffic safety league... Who knows.

I suppose I could also call driving schools. And check out driving clinics run by SCCA maybe.

Rich, I hear you about the AX. But, I am competitive, sometimes overly, and am not sure I could do what you were saying knowing lots of folks were watching me. Besides, I'd be nervous as hell having never even done an AX before.

Zach

the local PCA might have an Auto-X class, too... that's the direction it looks like I'll be trying

I think you will find thats your best bet as far as learning what the car will do and wont do and skills days as well.....go drive the thing like you stole it! and have fun thats what its all about ..Only thing you`ll find in a parking lot is trouble and it wont tell you Jack....Im go`n on i think year 5 AX and i still get nervous...ya know butterflys...ya gotta start sometime ...Battery hold down check, wheels tight check,brake peddle up check, steering wheel tight check, seat tight check,seat belts work check, your good to go sir have fun ......One piece of advice that help me a ton (Dads a P.C.A instructor) look WHERE you wanna go not where your going ...if your look`n at the guard rail guess what! thats where your gonna go and when you feel the seat being suck up your ass DONT lift you will spin for sure.look where you wanna go and go there..Just drive the wheels off the thing ..You`ll probable only get about 15% of what the car can do ..........Last but not least HAVE FUN

SO DID YOU FIND A PLACE ????

The local PCA AX here in DFW has a driving school every February. It is an AX based event, with plenty of time between runs to discuss stuff, and make changes. But it is not geared for car tuning, just driver tuning.


Maybe I can suggest a date in early March for a "Test and Tune" day. We rent a lot, setup a skidpad, a slalom, and a few other items, plus a short AX course. Everyone gets 4 hours to test and tune their car, half in the morning, and half in the afternoon.

Not as such. Police had no help, nor did the safety league. Their brilliant advice was "have the car checked by a PA state inspector, and it will be fine."

Which is great for, you know, figuring out where the threshold for brakes is in a panic situation, or knowing how the car will handle if I have to swerve to miss a kid.

PA is still an ice cube in February. I am not sure what will be happening then.

Zach

put snow and ice tires on WEEEEE ...I think that would be REAL good pratice as far as learning how to drive it

Not sure the best advice.
Our state troopers practice in the same airstrip we use...
Contact the state troopers, they do the driver training that is similar to an autox, but a bit more.......realistic.

Rich