Well my local paint store kinda convinced me to paint the 914 with Dupont centari, Single stage Enamel, I'm using the low temp reducer, and not the "gloss enhancer"... So the directions say 8 parts paint 2 parts reducer...It kinda warm her and the garage is staying at mid 60 constantly.... it is mega thich and I'm having to go more like 8 paint and 4 reducer.. but it is mega dry and doesnt flow out.... and mega orange peel... I 'm using a Sata JET NR 95 HVLP gun and a 1.5 tip, which is what I have always used, but I havent ever shot out singe stage in it,,, What the hell is going on. I used to paint a fair amount, But in the last 5 years the only thing I have shot is panel repair on our explorer after 2 separate accidents, last time was about 2 years ago...

Reducer, or activator, you may need both. 60 degrees will be below what most manufactures recommend, but I paint at temps much lower at work. Low temps is where reducer will be needed. Look on the Dupont web site, support for paint mixing is usually great from them.

THE STIG

Have you tried reducing the air pressure or the size of the spray pattern

I have tried everything with the gun... actually at lower PSI settings it seems worse...

Also they said not to use the 793 "hardener gloss enhancer " is this my problem ... I asked and they insisted that it isnt necessary or recommended...

looking online it looks like Dupont changed their mixing ratios to meet air quality standards it used to be 4 : 1 . and they also are saying Gloss hardener is optional, but to use 2000 ...So I may try that...and they say not to use the "hot" cold weather reducer... even though it says to. any thoughts... for now I'm gonna wait, wet sand down my orange peel and give it a go later... bu the way I'm am using a respirator, face sock and tyvek suit, to protect myself and also I have a squirrel cage fan exhausting the fumes

to much paint may mean not enough air..
enough is CFM, not pressure.

Rich

If the airhose is long, say 25 feet and the id is 1/4 it may not be getting enough volume of air. It sounds like you need warmer weather or more reducer, more reducer will make the paint more apt to run. Are you adjusting the air at the gun with a regulator? Mix up a small amount with more reducer and see how it works. The gloss enhancer is probably a retarder to promote better leveling.

4:1 paint to hardener is how I mix it, then thin it to my taste ( usualy about 15-20 % ). A 1.5 tip is plenty big, I actually use a 1.4. I ALWYAS use hardener in Centari and I'm kind of surprised the shop didn't tell you to., it isn't neccesary BUT it seems to make a difference in the overall appearance to me. As far as thinning it, thin it to your preference. I tend to shoot my clear and my single stage paint pretty thin, with multiple coats. It lays down slicker, but it also runs easier

If it's too thick, it means you haven't added enough reducer. The viscosity is too high. You can get a calibrated cup at the paint store to measure viscosity. IIRC, they only cost a couple of bucks. After you add the hardener, add the reducer until you get the right viscosity. Then test shoot on some cardboard to adjust quanity and pattern. Shoot a tack coat, very light, then color coats. If you're going to color sand and buff, shoot at least 4-5 color coats.

IMPORTANT Run a ground wire from good ground on body to a metal water pipe. It will cut down the amount of dust that the paint attracts by
80-90%.

I wrote this procedure a few years back, should answer a lot of your questions. It's in the Classics Forum, applies to Centari paint too.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=17931

I painted my 6 in the driveway in 2001, the paint still looks great. There are no shortcuts for a good paint job. Good Luck

Centari is a good low cost product. BUT, If you havent used the hardner you won't be able to repair the finish. Centari use soft enamel. I have painted probably well over 1000 cars with it back in the day.

This sounds crazy but If you don't have a lot of paint on the car get a gallon of laquer thinner and lots of paper towels and wash the paint off the car. Be careful first shut off the heater and get some ventallation in the room. Then keep the paper towels moving and don't stay in one place too long. Don't ruin the primer! It sux but I have had a paint job or two go south and believe me this is better that wet sanding off all the enamel paint later.

Here's the reason I'm telling you to do this. Centari without hardner will stay soft for months. If you sand out the orange peel and try to buff out the car it will dull badly or melt under the heat of the buffer. Centari does not buff right out!
If you try to do the buff method and you sand through and have to try to spot repair the car the new top coat or anything you spay over it will attack it. This will suck more than you know. So, the best thing is to get that coat of paint off the car.

Then, at minimum get the 793 Hardner. If your going to go to the added expense of using the Centari 2000 system you may as well have used single stage urothane. Centari 2000 is Duponts first run at a urothane paint system. It didn't last in the market long before we could get a true urothane paint.

If you get the un-hardened paint off the car, Re-wet sand it to 400 grit to clean off the tacky surface, Re-wash the car and re-mask the car. Get Velva-Seal and spray that out first.

If your shop is staying 60 deg and your comfortable spraying at that room temp I would use a mid-temp reducer. Mix as instructed and use 793. 18-19 sec Zahns cup or get a mixing cup to get the reduction right. CFM is what will keep your pattern and application consistent. I never look at the gauge. I paint by sight and sound of the air coming out of the gun. I use a Binks Model # 18 I purchased 30 years ago. I use it for all my top coats no matter what I'm shooting..

Spray down a tack coat and don't rush to get the second coat on. Enamel is a hurry up and wait paint. Hurry up and get the coat of paint on then force yourself to wait 10 to 15 minutes for the tack coat to flash. Touch the paper next to the car to check it for tack.

Second coat you can really lay it down. The tack coat will help suck out some of the solvent and speed suspension. Third coat I alway add a little extra hardner and slightly over reduce it. If I have enough paint and the car looks flawless I will reduce just a little more and shoot one more coat on the car for flow. This will bring up the gloss and slow drying. The thinner paint will help with orange peel. If I have a panel or two I don't like I will save the paint and in a couple days I will wet sand out the car to 600-800 grit and fix flaws or runs and give it one more round of my top coat mix. 600-800 may seem harsh but were talking enamel here. It's like blocking rubber even with hardner.

Oh, and get some fish eye eliminator! Use it only if you have to.

Remember, Enamel means Clean, clean, Clean! Before paint.

Good luck.

So IF i can get it off the car should I keep with this centari? I'm sure ill never get all of it off the door jams and under hood that I shot first...(nooks and crannys) or can I /should I use chroma base urathane and clear? I have used chroma base before, I dont know why I started with the centari other than I was thinking it would be easier in the hood area rather than trying to shoot clear in there, and even though I have plastic wrapped the garage and done a very good clean I was afraid of dirt in the clear but of course there wasent hardley any dirt in the centari... Im done with the family stuff so I will try to mess with it tonight ... Thanks guys...

No no... Jambs will be fine, Just mask them. If you are seriously thinking about switching paint then yes move up the even a single stage Chrome one. Very user friendly. Very sandable and buffable.

OK did some tests,,, I tried the lacquer thinner on the engine hatch since it had came out the worst, some how I missed some debris and when I sprayed the targa bar from underneath it blew a couple of chunks on the lid... The new paint did come off but not without a fight, it was a gooey sticky mess,,, as a alternative I wet sanded and did a quick buff on the top of the targa bar.. and the paper didnt really clog up too much just a bit, and it did seem to buff out decent but all I had on hand was some foam pad polishing glaze , and it came out real decent considering it wasn't a cutting compound... and it didnt seem to gum up.. the paint doesnt seem sticky,, if I press firmly with a fingernail it doesn't leave a mark, but if I press as hard as I can I can leave a mark.... when I was getting the paint the salesperson said that some guys will use hardener in the last coat, but suggested I didnt because it was alot easier to run and since I had not shot some paint in a while that is why they steered me away from the hardener, but is was suggested by someone earlier that if I hse hardener on a later or last coat it will cause problems... Again they said most of the guys that are using the centari don't use hardener... do they not have a clue? or is it ok? So What to do?????????? I shot this last night,,, today is Christmas eve, tomorrow is Christmas day, So no stores will be open,, Can I wat till Saturday to "lacquer strip the paint"I'm sure I dont have enough lacquer to strip the whole car ,NOT to mention it will be a mega heartbreak doing all that, Is it absolutely necessary? or can I wet sand the orange peel out and try again MAYBE using a hardener,,, or wet sand and go urethane /base coat clear coat, I think urethane can go over about anything, but can someone confirm this and would I have any problems having this "unhardened added" paint under it?... Man I feel like a idiot its been too long since I shot some paint ,here are some shots of my problems.

targa bar quick sanded and quick foam pad buff this shows a bit of reflection it hard to photo
Click to view attachment

light shown on sanded buffed targa bar
Click to view attachment

light shown on Unsanded trunk panel showing dry paint the led in the light look blurry
Click to view attachment

If your going to wash it down you need to get right on it. If it's been a day it's set. Forget about it.

You can try to wet sand and buff it. But the shine will suck. You can try to sand and recoat it with hardner but it my cause the un-hardened paint to wrinkle.

I dont think the lacquer strip is a possibility right now I only have about 1/2 gallon,I only had it to clean up stuff and my gun... so what would be safer Centari with hardener or go urethane as far as wrinkling up. or should I just keep shooting it without the hardener... it basically has been 20 hours right now and will be another 36 hours if Walmart open up early and thy have acquer thinner, which I think they do so a total of 56 hours before I start putting any lacquer thinner on it....

Nope, you have to get right on it or it's firm. I guess I would wet sand it and try not to break through the skin. It's entirely a crap shoot whether or not it wrinkles from a new top coat no matter what you put over it now. I've lucked out a couple times.

Your on a relearning curve now. Just stay at it and don't be affraid to contact the Dupont help email. I used it to track down a paint code for the Raspberry 914.

I had stopped shooting so right now there is 1 coat over the whole car and a second coat over the hood. It wasn't turning out right so I stopped, should I shoot the rest now, and see how it comes out,, or wait?

Wayne,

You may not get an answer this weekend but here's a link for the tech help I think.

http://www2.dupont.com/Automotive/en_US/contact.html

Application is a practice and repetition thing but figuring out what products to use going forward may require a couple emails to one of the paint reps.

this discussion was really helpful. I have painted with enamel and the base coat clear coat and have had disappointment---one was the lack of hardener in one finish coat.
So is it possible to add this topic to another place easily found on "Painting"
It's not easy for some of us to find all the past notes and discussions by the search method....
Thanks to all for sharing the knowledge-experience.
my paint was also Centari line