Okay folks,

I've owned my early-73 MY 914-2.0 (914S for Pat G. ), and I looked at the VIN label on the driver's door jamb, but the build date could either be an "8" but missing one of the "punch-dots" in the left side of the lower loop, or a "9" with an "extra dot" (& don't ask about the COA - no help there).

... so which is it ????

I'm also aware of another 73 MY VIN 01102 built 9/72, & another on here VIN 01654 built 8/72 IIRC - & both are earlier VINs than mine - so did they build VINs out of date order??

My VIN Door Jamb Label:
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... and here's my project to restore - finally outside last Sunday before the "monsoon" hit!
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... Lotsa work for me to do, to say the least!

Here's the Karmann Plate with L80E & the Chassis No. matches the stamp in the rear trunk floor.

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It was the Gold or Bronze Metallic color when I bought it in Dec. 1975, then I changed it to the L96K Copper Metallic in 8/76, then to the current 930 Anthracite Grey Metallic in 5/80.

BTW - it will be going back to the original L80E Light Ivory in the Resto (not my Fav color, but OE), & retaining the OE #31 Beige interior ...

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... with the Fuchs 2L Alloy Wheels, Fog Lights & Center Console/Gauges "recreated" as it was originally delivered - but at my additional cost now (they were all "mysteriously missing" when I bought it).

Hey Tom, that is definetly an 8/72 build date. Look like you have a nice project on your hands, when are you going to start it?

.....well TOM, I think it,s a ..8-1972 build date......AND from what I THOUGHT I knew... all the interiors were black.?????,,,I didn,t know bague.(leather, color was available in /1973? ...and the wonderful plad inserts were not available until, 1974.....I would LIKE TO KNOW if a bague interior was available in the 1973 S ..early cars.... murray

Jonathan, ... in short, whenever the rain stops!

Unfortunately, our 1921 house has a tiny 18'-0" x 17'-6" garage - which was fine for a couple of Model T's (see pic below), so I need to roll my 914 or the parts shell outside to work on either - whether inside or out. ... & of course, now we get an El Nino year after years of drought - just when I need to work on it!

It's beyond my skills & tool bin for the major body work, so I'll be getting quotes & researching local shops, then pick one, transport 2 914 shells & get back1 + parts to sell/trade/donate!

I can work on smaller detail parts, rust bubble repair, dis-assembly & reassembly, etc. I'd like to get a media-blast cabinet & compressor for the smaller stuff, but don't have much room in my garage for anything else, as you can see below!

Picture of "The Twins" in my Small Garage, with 914 Parts in boxes on far left:

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... awaiting the sunny days!

Thanx Murray!

Hey all - Murray confirmed to me earlier by PM that "The door jamb sticker is DATED ...8-1972...vin # you have correct.,..4732901650....and the fuchs wheels are also dated 8-72"

Mine - assuming that is an 8/72 build date on my VIN 4732901954 ....

... AND in the pic below - VIN 4732901102 was built 9/72 ...

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So - have we now uncovered that Porsche did in fact build 914's out of VIN order, or is the above door sticker in error & should be 8/72 ???????

Murray, remember mine is an early-73 914S too & that's the OE interior color. In fact, they actually offered Brown & Beige interiors from the start, and added some as time went on - esp. 75-76 MYs, as you can see at this website:

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/PaintFabrics.htm

... also go to his main website & enjoying reading all of Jeff's great 914 info there!

Here are 71 & 72 MY charts which show #31 as Biege (Tan, Cinnamon, etc.):
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Here are 72 & 72 MY charts which show it as #501/502 for the Beige Smooth (#502 below) & Basketweave (#501 not shown) Leatherette material (& #503 Dark Tan is my Loop Pile carpet below & cont. at next post):
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...continued on next post ....

...continued from last post ....

... cont. from last post ... & another from 72 MY carpet samples, but apparently my #503 Dark Tan wasn't available then:
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& a pic of my OE #503 "Dark Tan" Loop Pile carpet (sort of a tan & brown speckled or oatmeal color) - which I think is the same in SMG Saraha Beige Steve's Cherry 73 914-2.0:
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Here is my 1st Erroneous COA which shows #31 from the Kardex on my 914, incorrectly as "Black" (which is #11 in the charts above) & 2nd COA shows the same, but they updated it to a GA000424 & 914 2.0 after I submitted pix of the engine case # to PCNA:
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... well, my interior pix posted previously in this post certainly do NOT look like "Black" to me, & I doubt that they do to anyone else!!

Since PCNA has said that the #31 for the interior color appears on the Kardex for my 914, I presume it was just an error in "interpreting" the code number to color by their COA staff or outside servicer who did the first 2 COAs showing this error.

The preceding were the documentation which I sent to the PCNA Customer Service GM, in the hopes of getting my COA corrected, & that I hope will come back correct this time (3rd time the charm??)!!

I believe the color carpet in the Sahara Beige car is # 402. Kind of a Silver Knit Brown.

I see now that it does match the top one #402 here, & probably a better match for your brown upholstery!

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I don't know how common the #503 Dark Tan vs. #504 Tan above, were with the #31 interior, since the dealer color/materials selection docs which I'd posted only say it's loop pile carpet with the Appearance Group, but not which color?

I think the regula Tan would show dirt more in daily use, being a lighter color.

BTW - mine has not been vacuumed, cleaned or anything for 24+ years stored in my garage, so excuse the grime - especially in comparison to Steve's beauty!
... but Steve's is my model & goal to achieve for my resto!

Soooo......what about the build dates vs. VIN order in the question above??

Why would 47329011102 be built in 9/72,

... while the later VINs 4732901650 & 4732901954 be built the month before in 8/72 ??


... Anyone?

My house 1953! also waiting for the rain.

Man - I'm jealous - you actually have a full size 20' x 20' garage - what a difference a couple of feet each way makes!!

Oh yeah, & 2 teens & a 911 too!

Stay Dry!

TOM requarding out of sequence chassis numbers and build dates decals......well When I reviewed the list of early 1973-S cars I think I noticed a propensity toward certain colors. SUNFLOWER yellow being the most prevelant, within the early 1973 MY...(meaning of course they were constructed in the latter part of 1972.). As a marketing tool maybe the fully loaded 1973-S cars were of a more noticable, or recoginizable, color, (sunflower yellow) and others. This could explain some of the mismatched chassis dates and build numbers, as they may have held back a batch of certain chassis with (certain colors) to construct into the 914-S. While this has been SAID to be JUST a north american marketing tool, the management /marketing at porsche surely knew everything about it....food for thought......MURRAY

Hey Murray - sorry we sent our rain your way & more coming!

What I've read/heard form several sources, was that VW-Porsche/PAG "over there" had "converted" &/or "redirected" some early 914-2.0 cars originally intended for the Euro market in the Summer/Fall of 1972 - to be sent to the USA where demand was so high for the "914S". But I'm not sure what they did about the Euro 2.0 GB motors vs. the USA/Calif spec GA 2.0 motors - maybe swapped them out??

So I doubt that they would've held any back regardless of popular colors. As to colors - well you & I can remember that that was the 70"s and the bright & wild colors like Yellows, Oranges, Reds & Greens were the "in" & "cool" thing! So I think that they just produced a lot more of them to be a hit with the younger buyers whom they were courting with the 914s!

Unfortunately, the members' VIN listing here doesn't include the build dates, so it's not easy to check it there, although there are several others who could be "polled" among early 73 MY & low VIN's.

I don't think that colors had anything to do with the out of order VINs we're noting here, since 01102 is an Orange (Signal Orange or Phoenix Red?), yours is Sunflower Yellow IIRC, & mine is the "dull" Light Ivory!

- which BTW I would not have picked for myself if buying new, but instead probably would've gone for either the Marathon or Alaska or Special Order Blue Metallic or 72's Adriatic Blue (73's Olympic Blue was too pale/light for me), or maybe I'd have "settled for" a Silver, Delphi Metallic Green, Ravenna or Zambezi Green, or Black "on the lot" if I had to!

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Since there's no build dates with the Members' VINs here, I've started a poll to see if we can "semi-scientifically" ascertain whether the out of order build dates was a one time quirk, one MY event, or happened more often with our beloved Teens?

Please go here & post your VIN & Built Date:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=103136

I'll check my ex-racer shell's door label this weekend or next time dry weather & my "free" time coincide - it's a 74 MY 2.0 IIRC.

Thanx!
Tom
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vin numbers were never assigned in order so the last number may not be the last one made. For example by factory letter we have the last m 471 made in 1971 (415) but it is not the last serial number

Interesting!

... was that only for certain special models - such as your M471, LE's, etc. - or across all 914s in general?

If/when you get a chance George, could you please add your extensive data base of VINs & Build Dates at the linked poll in the quote below (or in my prior post)?

George - is mine an 8/72 or 9/72 on the door label below.....what say you??

Huh?

Simple ...

The VIN numbers were stamped into the chassis at Karmann when the raw shell was finished before they went onto the assembly line.

The DOT sticker on the doorjamb is USA only and was added to the finished car before they went onto the container ship to the US.

My guess would be they picked finished cars from the lot according to color/options of the orders coming from the US and not by VIN.
Andy

I'm not George, but i'm certain that is a 8 ...

For it to be a 9 there would have to be 5 mistakes, 2 dots in the wrong spot and 3 dots missing ...
Andy

The build date is a field in the Member VIN form.

On the VIN listing description (on top of each listing page!) it reads:

a "d" indicates a known Date Code

Andy

Hi Andy,

Yes I was aware of that "d" & it's meaning, but I'm not sure how to display the actual dates alongside the VINs for them all in a list - if that can be done at all??

I assumed that the "d" was all you can get.

Let me know if there is a way to do that.

Thanx!
Tom
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Gotcha - so they had a "lot" of painted shells sitting around at the VW-Porsche final assembly plant awaiting finish-up, then they'd pick a batch based on the colors ordered &/or anticipating demand for the US market to do final assembly, then the door sticker was punched & placed accordingly!

ARGH!!!!! ... but that both complicates my getting usable examples of other 914-2.0's to use for proper OE fitment examples!!! ... sometimes I think they're just out to confuse us & drive us crazy on our 914's at PAG & VW-Porsche!!

... such as, whether to use a green or amber bezel fog light switch to recreate mine properly in the resto - I got both just in case!
I guess I can still bracket it with examples of both build date & VINs before & after mine. Ergo, 01102 in 9/72 becomes an after example (with green bezel), & Murray's is a same 8/72 same month as mine & earlier VIN.

Hey Murray - what color is your fog light switch bezel - green or amber??

BTW - did you mean the "Chassis No." stamped into the Chassis at the rear trunk floor - where I bolded in your reply above??
... or is there a VIN somewhere else stamped on the sheetmetal (RF inner fender maybe IIRC??)

No - but you're German & George is not! ... no offense intended either way guys!

I had to look at 01102's date stamp in the earlier post to see what you mean, cuz sometimes us old farts get confused easily

- you've got it exactly right, it has to be an 8 !!


However, in fairness to whomever looked at it quickly to fill out the Kardex as it was leaving the plant in Weissach (??), you could look fast & think it was a "9" instead! So it was an honest mistake, & hopefully PCNA can correct the Kardex & add it to my COA, since I sent that picture to them!

Thanx Everyone!
- & to Sir Andy for explaining to this old duffer why it had to be an "8"!

...TOM, my fog light switch (knob), (bezel)...is GREEN...which I presume is original, only because of the low mileage of my car....I hope it,s original cause I also got a spare if,n it brakes.

Wa-do! Murray!

... yeah, I got a new one of each color just in case it turned out to be green or amber, since ours are early 914S's & the change was somewhere ??/?? mid-way in the 73 MY !?

I plan to put it in that dang hole that's been staring at me since I first test drove my 914 in Nov. 1975 !!

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... Note the wear on the edge of the hole in the basketweave facing material from a switch being mounted there - yet more "evidence" it was there once!

I need to get me one of them "Round Tuit's" that they sell in the folksy novelty stores & Cracker Barrels back there!

A BIG THANX to you ALL
... for clarifying the build date on my VIN door sticker, & reinforcing what I thought was 8/72.

Also a BIG THANX to Sir Andy for explaining WHY it had to be an "8"!

It pays to get extra eyes & minds on the subject!

Tom
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Tom, sorry I'm late to the party, and thanks for the PM.
Yours is definitely an 08/72 build. There does seem to be an anomalous number of 09/72 dates on the compliance decals prior to your car; from 1017 to 1400 I have a string of 09/72. I know that in the 1960's the 911's were not completed in VIN order, but I was not aware that the 914 was built out of order. The early 1973 seems to be the only time that the compliance decal dates were out of order month-wise. The also seems to be some interesting things occurring in the chassis numbers.

Thanx Dave & to Sixerdon for reminding me of the chassis dating methodology!

ALL - the continuing oddity with my 73 914S - is that it has a 8/72 build date as decided above, with a date code chassis number which places it at the 4th day of the 36th week of 1972 & #45 built on that day.

However, in looking at the 1972 calendar - that placed it as the Chassis Built on 8/31/72 - the last day of the month - with the VIN door sticker as the same month 8/72!

Geez Louise!!! - either those Germans were really fast at trucking/rail the shell from the Karmann plant to VW's 914 final assembly facility - & then completely assembling the car on the SAME DAY!

... or they used the chassis number production date for the build date on the door label !!??

And just to quell any speculation that it's a Franken-teen Chassis - the trunk number below (although unclear with the paint over it) & Karmann door plate appear to match numbers - as both appear to be 3649545:

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Any thoughts from the Gurus & 914 History Buffs out there????

The HC recall campaign to replace incorrect label dated 9/75 with labels dated 9/74 suggests that errors in the compliance decals did happen. It could be that the 08/72 beyond 1400 should have been 09/72. The month transition in 1971 & 1972 was about 0300 and in 1974 about 1600. The reality of the chassis numbers says that 08/72 is highly suspect on these cars.

Dave, I don't know the chassis no. on 4732901650 also built in 8/72, but maybe Murray?ME733 can weigh in on that?

It might also help to have you post a pic of your list here, on the ones to which you're referring, to see if there is any enlightenment there.

Also remember that the 1973 MY was the largest production & sales numbers year for the 914 - as well as Porsche+Audi USA having a huge pent=up demand such that they diverted 2.0Ls on the final assembly line to US specs & delayed the 2.0's availabilityin Euro-land - so it would be expected that there could be more produced in the first production month of Aug. 72 for the 73 MY.

We now know from your lists & Jeff Bowlsby's LE Registry list & Sir Andy's explanations above, that the VIN's were NOT produced in order, nor apparently were chassis nos., due to varying demand for certain colors.

You'll note on the VIN sticker on mine, that it was over-painted with the bronze/Gold color which it was when I purchased it in Dec 1975 (& as advertised during the Fall of 75), which was a repaint/color change either by the PO/originalowner or dealer or latter at former's request. I'm the 2nd owner with continuous title since Dec. 1975, so I know that the sticker wasn't changed during my tenure (although painted over with both of my 8/76 & 5/80 color changes). Moreover, there is only the L80E Light Ivory under the one corner of it which I'd peeled back to check.

More likely & more logical than being an erroneous VIN sticker build date per se, is that they used the date when the shell was built by Karmann & stamped on 8/31/72 - then paint, shipping & final assembly probably actually took place during early Sept. 72 - but they ignored that & used 8/72 from the Chassis No. for the Build Date on the VIN sticker (or did so by policy??), with it thereafter shipped to the USA/California (IIRC it was about 30-60 days from the factory to the West Coast POE), & then first sold here in CA on 11/9/72 (according to my 1st & all subsequent CA registration cards) to the folks from whom I purchased it about 3 years later.

Murray's & Sir Andy's & your comments here & elsewhere about completed & painted shells being built out of numerical order based on customer/distributor demand probably explains why the Signal Orange 4732901102 & your examples above were built.

Maybe mine having been date stamped by Karmann on the last day of the month & the VIN/Build Date door sticker, perhaps sheds light that VW's final assembly plant actually based the latter sticker's build date on the chassis # rather than the final assembly completion & test drive date - or at least that they occasionally used the chassis date for the VIN sticker.

Cheers!
Tom
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Okay, I finally found the old Samba FS listing & the seller's linked Picasa Web pix for VIN 4732901102 at the links below:

file:///C:/Users/Tom%20T/Documents/Auto/914/-%20914s%204sale/-%20914%20Comps%204sale/73%20914-2L%20$14000%20obo%20org-blk%20102k%20mi%20gd%20cond%20Portland%20OR%20-%20Samba-com%232-25-09.htm

> Note that in the above ad, the seller references GA000336 for the engine code (like I've said before - half-zymenrs" means I remember half the stuff half the time, & I got that one right! ), & stated that he didn't have any receipt for the partial body work/repaint - which is in fact included on the $4800+ receipt in the pic #77 at the pix link below (see middle right hand side) ....

http://picasaweb.google.com/uplife66/914FromCoereDalane#

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This is NOT a completely unmolested 914, as evidenced by the work invoice at the last of the 77 pix at the link above, but it appeared close enough for me to use as a "model early-73 914S / 914-2.0" for my resto, along with SMG Saharah Steve's 73 2L (which is a much later 73 build date).

FYI Y'all - Here is 01102's Chassis plate #3539559 for a build date the week & a day prior to mine - so they were probably neighbors on both the Karmann & VW final assembly lines - despite the VIN stickers' respective Build Dates of 9/72 for this one & 8/72 for mine! Who knows - maybe mine was in front of the line at VW ??
- only adding to the mystery!

Karmann Plate, Front Trunk VIN Plate & Body Stamp for VIN 4732901102:
> Note that the Door VIN & 9/72 Build Date Sticker was previously posted above.

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If the weather is good tomorrow, I'll try to shoot pix of my air cleaner box & it's part no. - to compare to this one's box/p-n, because they're similar but slightly different. I'm curious if it's any different as a superceded part or not, since they're both "diamond-pattern" stampings on the time, but mine has 3+/- crossbars too, whereas the later 73 MY air boxes like Sahara Beige at the O&H "The Few, the rare..." topic have only cross-bars (& later in late-74 or 75 MY they were smooth topped).

Enjoy those Pix at the link above - I did !!!!!

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Actually, the 914s were not shipped to any VW facility for final assembly.

All 914-4 cars were fully assembled at Karmann!
Andy


Here you go, this is the lot at Karmann that i mentioned earlier. As you can see, the cars left Karmann fully assembled ...

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Andy,

I thought that VW Werk was in someplace like Osnabruck (sp??) where they installed the suspension, engine, transaxle, interior, etc.???

Did I misunderstand, was misinformed or something??

So from what you're saying, then a date stamp for 8/72 & a Chassis No. for 8/31/72 would be consistent if they were built then both applied on the same day as it was completed.

BTW - the "missing dot" on the 8 appeared when I cleaned all the labels, stickers & stampings - all of which match-up. I also discovered that there was a 4th repaint of my 914 between the original L80E & the Gold/Bronze when I bought it in 12/75. You can see bits of it - Sahara Beige - around some of these pix below. I guess they wanted to be like Sahara Steve! .... oh wait, he had a different 914-2.0 back in 73-75!

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... continued ....

... other cleaned up labels, plates & stampings ....

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... continued ....

... other cleaned up labels, plates & stampings ....


This one shows the Sahara Biege better at the left -

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My "Blue Plates" that I hope DMV will let me keep, as you can see, last sticker was 87, then Non-Op thru 92 or 94, but couldn't take it in to re-register after DMV screwed up the non-op renewal for me!

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... continued ....

Okay - so aside from this Signal Orange 2L having what would appear to be an erroneous build date sticker, or else it was delayed until after 8/31/72 in its completion - this 914 was built a week & a day before mine, has a VIN 852 before mine & a GA engine 88 before mine .........

... and yet for a week apart & probably on the line at the same time - look at the difference in the stamped top ribbing of the two air cleaner boxes - both of which are the same part number !!??

Air Box for My early-`73 MY "914S" / 914-2.0 - VIN 4732901954, 2.0 Engine # GA000424, Chassis No. 3649545 ( = 8/31/72):

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Air Box for Signal Orange early-`73 MY "914S" / 914-2.0 - VIN 4732901102, 2.0 Engine # GA000336, Chassis No. 3539559 ( = 8/23/72):

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... Hmmmmm ...... so many differences & quirks in our 914s...........so little time!

TOM,.....I have the BLUE PLATE california tag, (when it was there ) dated sept 1983 the number is ...Yello914....I will probably mount it on the front., with the georgia tag on the rear.....Murray

Wow Murray - I'd forgotten that they started the personalized plates in the Blue/Yellow era! You're lucky that GA doesn't require a front plate, so you can do that!

Do you know your Chassis Number on the Karmann plate per chance???

Also, do you know your first sold date out there (will show on the last Calif DMV reg card) &/or the dealership at which it was sold??

Who knows - maybe I saw it or around here back in the day!

The original chassis numbers, from start to mid-1974 were stamped into the rear trunk floor after welding up, but before painting. So the chassis number is a record of bodyshop production. The Karmann badge was applied after painting, and errors are known of mismatched chassis number and paint code. The VIN was not added until later as can be seen by the unpainted rectangle on the inner fender where it is stamped; left unpainted so the stamping would not crack the paint. The VIN's and chassis numbers are only synchronous on a large scale, but within a few hundred VIN's they are scattered for the most part. So it seems logical to me that the bodies were painted in batches and probably in chassis # order or close to it. Then the painted bodies were warehoused until required on the final assembly line. To have a body welded, painted and completed on the same day would be incredible. After entering the assembly line I think the chassis number is nearly meaningless. It could have been used for inventory control while waiting in the warehouse. While these numbers are kept in the records for the 911 I have no knowledge of them being kept for the 914. So while the chassis number is a clear production record, I don't think the compliance decal is as good at dating anything. Certainly, the COA will often give the first day of the month as the date of completion, and I believe this to be as suspect as a $7 dollar bill. I tend to take the compliance decal as a guide, not as an absolute. Mind you, all of this is just speculative, and I only have my own observations guiding me on this.

More like confused ...


Karmann is in Osnabrück!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karmann

Andy

Thanx for clarifying!

... now I could tell you where Tahlequah, Sallisaw, Cullowhee, Qualla, Wahya Gap, & few other off the main drag places here are - but admit I'm not familiar with Germany!

Dang it!! ... well I guess I'd better take that $7 bill in my pocket - along with the $3 one - & see if they'll gimme a ten!?

I wonder if they could've been stamping up a batch of US-DOT VIN Label stickers for a particular month based upon anticipated production levels, then just used them all up until gone - even if the cars were actually completed in the following month ??

That could partially explain the anomolies which you've uncovered Dave.

Another rust preventative measure that I'm going to take, is to epoxy seal the garage floor when the weather gets better & can clear out the garage completely!