Jeff,

Can the registration form include a the second driver fee for the autocross? Its OK to have a 2 drivers per car.
What the AX fee you estimate?
Can we round up more local 914 folks to learn how to run an AX at the LPR April 25th event? Otherwise, its going to be really hard to run.

I'll handle the 2nd AX driver as a special need as posted elsewhere. The Reg Form could be better, but I think its too hard to change right now. $35 per AX driver is what we had agreed to and which is included in the Principal registration fee.

I will broadcast getting workers for the April 25 AX...thats my birthday! I plan to attend at least one AX before the event, I just havent scheduled anything yet.

Lessee if I get this right...

Principal fee $115
This includes a fee for the AX of $35 (for one driver)

If so, I think we should change the registration form
From the form, I got the notion that upon the principal fee ($115) participation in the AX would cost an additional $20 per driver...

Lemme know what it is or should be and I'll change the form / put an update on the site

cheers,

Jeroen

There are 2 sub-events indicated on the Reg Form at an additional $20 each, to be paid directly to the sponsors of those events, should anyone wish to participate...the Concours and the Swapmeet. Those two sub-events are not included in the Principal fee.

The AX is built-in to the $115 Principal fee.

Good deal. $30 is going to GGR for the AX. $5 will go to LPR for the extra trailer and use of the equipment. Since I'm the only one who knows how to run the AX, we are seriously up a creek unless more people show up who know how to work the event. Safety is the main concern.

Rob - do we need to provide all of our own workers, including timing? Are we getting any man-power support from GGR for the $30/car or only the asphalt, sanction and insurance? What about cones, chalk, flags, etc.?

Should we do the event on a work / run format to man the corner stations?

Let me know what I can do to help. I have experience. (I prefer not to do timing and scoring)

Crap... sorry to add to the confusion
I shouldn't post at 04.00 in the morning

cheers,

Jeroen

All N Cal events are work / run. There's no F/T workers supplied. We may be able to ask for volunteers who want to help run the AX, watch, but not drive. Not too likely though.

The danger of a high % of newbies are delays in running and safety. This is why I need people to come to the next local AX to learn some functions.

The LPR trailer is full stocked with all the supplies needed to run. GGR is providing the site, insurance, and willingness to let us run on a different part of the site (and limit their own track).

It will work out. I just need 10 solid people who know what they are doing to monitor functions and safety.

GGR says a catering truck will come out for the event. People should still consider packing a lunch because the there's nothing else out there.

Also, is there some way to poll the attendees to see who is a full newbie? This will help us plan for instructors.

Thanks, R

Guys

I've already got all this stuff in motion. I'm putting together a questionaire that will determine experience and car classification that I intend to have everyone who will participate in the autocross answer ahead of time. From that questionaire, we will have an excellent idea of how to place workers and divide up car classes and how many qualified instructors we can expect.

The basic outline of the questionaire is listed below. It gives you an idea of the questions. Maybe tomorrow I'll get the html web page questionaire up for you guys to look over. Let me know if I missed anything.

Seanery: can you cancel your poll and erase the thread. I think asking multiple times will confuse people. Let's do it all at once.

Jeff: I will need to get a list of people registered for the autocross along with e-mail addresses. Not everyone reads the 914club site daily.

Demick




Name: [name1]
E-Mail: [email]
914 Club login: [login]
AutoX Experience: [experience1]
Worker Positions: [announcer1] [cardsorter1] [conecounter1] [courseworker1] [grid1] [security1] [starter1] [tech1] [timeslip1] [timer1]
Setup?: [setup1]
Instructor: [instructor1]

Name Secondary: [name2]
AutoX Experience: [experience2]
Worker Positions: [announcer2] [cardsorter2] [conecounter2] [courseworker2] [grid2] [security2] [starter2] [tech2] [timeslip2] [timer2]
Setup?: [setup2]
Instructor?: [instructor2]

Car: [car] [carother]
Year: [year]
Color [color]

Tire type: [tiretype]
Front Tire Size [widthf]/[aspectf]-[diaf] [ftireother]
Rear Tire Size [widthr]/[aspectr]-[diar] [rtireother]

Engine: [enginesize]
Intake: [intake]
Compression ratio. [compression]

Weight Reduction? [weightreduced]
Street legal? [streetlegal]
Currently Licensed? [licensed]

I'm mostly clueless on how you guys run your AXes, so I ain't much help here...

But please check with the "throphies" thread to verify classes

cheers,

Jeroen

Yep. We've got 3 classes for trophies: Stock, Improved, and Race. All non-914's will be placed in 'fun' category which has no awards. I have the criteria for how to classify the cars into those 3 categories that I have run by Rob. The questionaire gives us enough info to categorize the cars.

Demick

Nicely done. The classes will work great. Any idea on numbers of AX participants from the 92 registrants?

There are 59 principal registrations. All of those have paid for the autox. The remaining 34 have not.

Holy crap - I don't know how we're going to pull off an autox with something like 45 newbies.

Demick

Well, it's simple...

"You're not supposed to hit the cones. Now get your ass in line!"

That's what they told me at my first AX

cheers,

Jeroen

Hi Demick...good news!!!

Not everyone who has registered will AX. At this moment *only* 49 have indicated that they will AX, and the poll shows that about half of those have AX'd before. DO you still want a list of emails?

Yes, I would still like a list of names and e-mails. I'll probably wait a week or so before putting up the questionaire to make sure all registrations have been finalized. Then I would like to send an e-mail to every autox participant requesting that they fill out the questionaire. So once your registration list is finalized, send me the names/e-mails.

Thanks
Demick

Will do. The question is...will B be on the list....???

Another question:

A few people have indicated on their reg forms that they want to drive a NAR914 for the AX. I would REALLY like this to be a 914-only event...but have not responded to them yet. Some of them own 914s, but just wont have them at the WCC for one reason or other.

What say ye? Does anyone have any strong opinions either way? I thought we have intended this to be a 914-only event from the beginning and what we do this year will set a precedent for the future. Next thing we know, we will have Minis and 510s at our AX...which might dilute the experience.

They will then say...'well last year you let so and so run'...

Opinions?

I say let them run, but group the NAR914s together. 914s together. I think it's only fair.

I also say to let them run. I agree it would be ideal if everyone could show up in a 914, but all of those who paid for the principal registration, paid for the autox. Jeff, I think you've done a great job in promoting this as a 914 only event and discouraging the use of a non-914, but when it comes down to it in the end, not everyone will be able to make it in their 914. I'm fully expecting Mueller to show up in his 911 no matter how hard he tries to get his 914 roadworthy. Also, there will be a few people with rental cars from the east coast and Canada. I wouldn't want to deny these people some fun on Saturday if they want to participate - they are some of the ones making the biggest sacrifice to be here.

One thing we can definitely do is treat any non-914 as a 2nd class citizen. They will be in a 'fun' classification that doesn't compete for awards. We can also not rank their times in the autox results (list them only at the bottom of the results). We want anyone who is not in a 914 to get motovated to definitely bring their 914 next time around.

Demick

I am assembling the registration confirmation packets and need a bit more information for the AX event. Please tell me:

1. What time should I have our group meet at Candlestick?

2 Is there a particular part of the parking lot that we will hold the AX so I can give a detailed map, or should I leave it generic?

3. I will also point out that they should bring a Snell 95-approved helmet and their car will be required to pass the tech inspection – wheel bolt torques, secured battery, no fluid leaks.

4. Lunch is not provided and there are no restaurants nearby, so they need to bring their own lunch arrangements. There is a possibility of a roach coach catering truck, but not a guarantee.

5. They should visit the GGR website for more details.

6. Are toilets available?

7. Do they need chairs, suncreen,

I also know Rob mentioned that he needed to get the trailer to the site, he needed a person with a truck and hitch. Has someone agreed to do that or do I need to find someone?

What else do I need to tell / ask them to bring or be prepared for?

1. What time should I have our group meet at Candlestick?
People should aim to show up at 8:00am. People who are going to help to setup the autox should show up at 6:45am, and we will arrange with those people individually.


2 Is there a particular part of the parking lot that we will hold the AX so I can give a detailed map, or should I leave it generic?

The GGR site has general instructions for getting to the site:

http://www.pca-ggr.org/acvenues.html

There is only one entrance to the parking lot that will be open (both for us and GGR), so there is only one way in. There will be someone at the gate having everyone sign insurance waiver forms. Please specify to that person that you are there for the WCC autox, and they will direct you where to go.

3. I will also point out that they should bring a Snell 95-approved helmet and their car will be required to pass the tech inspection – wheel bolt torques, secured battery, no fluid leaks.

Heavy encouragement on bringing their own helmet. We will be very limited with loaners so we will have to rotate the loaners between drivers as they go out on course. It needs only to be a Snell 90 approved helmet or newer. Motorcycle helmets with the Snell 90 rating are fine. Cars will be inspected for the following:

-Firm brake pedal (at least as firm as can be expected in a 914)
-Battery must be securely fastened.
-Throttle return spring functioning properly.
-Front wheel bearings properly adjusted.
-No gross fluid leaks
-No cords exposed on any tires.
-No loose body pieces (especially on wheels - remove any snap-on caps or rings)
-Factory seat belts or better.
-Helmet: SA-90 or M-90 or later.

Most common way to fail tech is the wheel bearings or a loose battery. Encourage everyone to check their battery and wheel bearings before coming to the autox.


4. Lunch is not provided and there are no restaurants nearby, so they need to bring their own lunch arrangements. There is a possibility of a roach coach catering truck, but not a guarantee.
In 6 years for autocrossing at Candlestick I've never seen a catering truck. There is a good deli nearby (although a kind of scary neighborhood) that we can direct people to if they don't have lunch.


5. They should visit the GGR website for more details.

Yes. GGR Frequently asked questions are here:

http://www.pca-ggr.org/autocrossinfo.html

6. Are toilets available?
yes - port-o-potties are available.

7. Do they need chairs, suncreen,

There won't be much time for sitting (either driving or working the whole time except lunch). So chairs are optional. Sunscreen and water is important.


I also know Rob mentioned that he needed to get the trailer to the site, he needed a person with a truck and hitch. Has someone agreed to do that or do I need to find someone?
I don't know about the trailer situation.

What else do I need to tell / ask them to bring or be prepared for?

Pretty much covered here. People should be instructed to arrive at the site at 8:00, and park in the WCC 914 area. Unload EVERYTHING from their cars (trunks included). Then check in at the 'registration' table (everyone will already be registered so no real registration happens here). Then walk the course. People usually do this in groups - so join up with some others and walk the course. Mainly just try and make a mental map in your mind where the course goes, where the turns are, etc. Between 8:30 and 9:00 we will have a drivers meeting which everyone must be at. Any further instructions will be given there.

Rob will chime in if I missed anything.

Demick

The trailer thing is solved. there will be a roach coach but expect 180-200 drvers plus spectators. soory for the typos: feeding kid with other hand.

do we have names and numbers for ax?

each car is being assigned a number. I should have the final tally towards the end of this week.

Right now I am 95% certain we will have about 52 cars for the AX.

As far as car numbers. Some participants have permanent numbers painted on their cars, and some have magnetic numbers that they use for competition. I would suggest that we let anyone with permanent numbers use their own numbers for the autocross. Anyone who doesn't have numbers will use their WCC number and will have to tape that number on the doors on both side of the car. The rallye shields are not big enough to be used as car ID for the autox.

Demick

The rule is Porsche or PCA member (you have to own a Porsche to become a member). I think non Porsches and non-914s detract from the point and the fun. I know people mean well, but my vote is Nay.

How many newbies are there??

Can I get a list of the AX participants?

Demick, how many instructors do we have? I have you, me, Cathy Carlson, Bill, and Randal. GGR is offering more instructors.

I'm checking on the site dimensions and will start the course design. It will look very familiar to Zone 7 AX school participants.

I got someone to tow the timing trailer. GGR will handle registration and drivers meeting.

Jeff, do we have a check for GGR and LPR?

Thanks, R

We've got to decide ASAP whether we will allow non 914's or non-Porsches to run in the Autox. Who decides? We need to decide before asking for people to fill out the autox questionnaire.

Jeff is going to send me the list of people who have registered for the autox this weekend. Jeff, can you copy Rob on that list too.

After receiving the list, I will send an e-mail to all those people asking them to fill out the autox questionnaire that I made up. The results of that questionnaire will tell us how many newbies we have and how many instructors we will have.

We shouldn't really need GGR to handle the registrations because everyone is pre-registered. I assume that GGR will handle security at the gate, and that they will handle getting the insurance waiver signed at the gate as well.

As far as the site - Rob, can you check with GGR to see if there will be barriers installed between ours and their portion of the parking lot? When we used to split the lot with the BMW club, there were always barriers between the two groups. Once we find out where our portion of the lot is, I can design the course if you want.

Also, if we have 60 cars, that equals $1800 that we have agreed to go to GGR. That seems like a lot (that's the majority of the entire site fee). Maybe we can work out a flat fee of something closer to 1/2 of the site fee?? Of course, we don't want to rock the boat - they are doing us a favor by letting us run with them.

Demick

Demick,

Thanks. Honestly, I have no information on how many people are autocrossing, or how many are newbies. We need the information on newbies NOW. I need the registrants NOW.

Is there also some way to find out if people who come out to watch the AX but not participate, are willing to volunteer for the day.

GGR is accomodating us and is nervous that we don't have enough instructors. They want a 1:1 newbie to instructor ratio, which we most likely won't have. We may have better coverage if instructors go both ways or we have 3 run groups.

GGR rules prevail. This is a GGR event and a PCA event. All PCA and GGR rules apply. Since GGR is taking care of insurance and site, they get 100% of each registrants $30. The extra $5 goes to LPR for the trailer use. That's the deal we made to make this event happen. Its a win-win situation for both sides.

With non-Porsche cars- PCA / GGR rules apply.

We will have the same room and set up as the AX School. I have the site block and am trying to get dimensions now. I think it will be 400 x 800 but light poles and grid make a difference.

Course design is negotiable. I have a very good idea of the short course from the AX school. Its short and twistie and is in the same spot we are going.

We also need to work out how and when awards will be given. I'll start ccing you on the emails I've been getting from GGR.

Thanks again,
R

Rob & Demick,
I'm happy to help.

Carl

Help? Awesome. What can you do? Have you autocrossed before? Will you be driving in the AX? If not, can you volunteer for a working position for the day?

THANKS, R

PS- Where did you go kayaking? I was a kayak instructor for about 6 years and still have 3 laying around the backyard.

So is there any issue with allowing non-914s or non-Porsches to run the AX? As much as we want to make this a 914 exclusive event, Demick has a good point in that there will be a number of folks (from out of town primarily), that have paid for the AX and will have rental cars. I dont want to alienate them. Then we talk about the V8 conversions and Otmars 914E who will be there...I assume they would be allowed to run?

I support the idea (kicking and scratching all the way though) of letting them run in a separate class for fun. This whole event is really just a fun run, not competitive, other than for the WCC trophies.

Alternatively we can simply refund unused fees and maybe they can ride shotgun if that is what needs to happen.

Tell me what to do...

Personally, I don't think we should let non-914 cars AX
And I don't think we need to refund them the AX fee either
Just my oppinion though...

Rob. do the instructors need to be GGR or LPR instructors? I was hoping that we could use qualified instructors from out of the area as well (of course, we would just be taking their word for it). If we need GGR or LPR qualified instructors, then our list is pretty short. There is no way we will get a 1:1 ratio. We need to encourage instructors who usually attend LPR or GGR events to participate (and instruct) in our event instead. People like Howard and Andrew.

We also should consider getting anyone with enough experience on the GGR instructor list. Not exactly sure who this applies to, but Dorris comes to mind. She could be an instructor for us. For us, an instructor doesn't need to give great driving advise, they just need to know how a GGR autox operates and instruct from a safety point of view (what to do, what to expect, where to go, and when).

I know the poll said we only have about 10 newbies, but that is not accurate. I'm guessing we will have at least 20.

I highly doubt that we will have enough people to have 3 run groups. But instructors should instruct during both run groups - so we should be fine with a 2:1 ratio. It just means that instructors will not work with their students. I think we should be fine with that, but we might want to have a special meeting separate from the drivers meeting to discuss how to work the course (for the newbies who will be working the course).

Awards will be given out the next day at the swap meet lunch. It just means that we will have to tally up all the time cards on Saturday night.

GGR rules are pretty soft on allowing for non-porsches to participate. One thing to consider is that most non-porsches will be newbies. And the # of newbies is really becoming an issue with the lack of instructors. GGR will be watching us very closely and they are concerned about how many cars we have an how many newbies we have. It might be best to not allow non-porsches, and blame it on GGR that they wouldn't let non-porsches run. We should also probably refund the $35 to those who we have to turn away for this reason. What do you think?

I sure hope we are not in over our heads on this one.

Jeff - I know you mentioned that the autox is open to anyone who comes (registered or not, just pay when you get there). But I think that is a bad idea. We have more than enough. If they aren't registered, they are welcome to observe, but we shouldn't take additional registrations that morning (unless they are instructors).

Demick

Since I don't have anything to drive anyway (even if allowed, I'm not planning on AX-ing my rental car), I may as well make myself usefull...

I don't know what "credentials" you need to instruct, but I know my way around a cone and would be happy to show newbies around the course (I really enjoyed doing that at my last AX).

cheers,

Jeroen

My comment from the peanut gallery is that I hope we will allow non 914 run in the auto-x. I want ALL the 914 club members to have a chance to learn how to better drive their cars and have a fun weekend. I believe we can safely accomplish this goal with the help of the more experienced members. We were all rookies at one point.

But it is not about what we want at this point. It is about meeting GGR's requirements. If GGR will only allow GGR and LPR approved instructors, then we do not have the option to allow other experienced autocrossers to instruct. This is an insurance issue. We need quite a few instructors for the number of inexperienced participants. If we can't get a good enough ratio of newbies to instructors, then we have a real problem.

Same goes with non-porsches. GGR rules state that you must drive a Porsche or at least be a PCA member in order to participate. If they decide to enforce this rule, then it is not our choice. Rob is getting this clarified now.

Jeff - as far as ride-alongs. That is a no-no. Once again, this is a PCA policy dictated by their insurance. If there are 2 drivers in a car, one must be an instructor (driver or passenger). Since we know all instructors will be instructing all the time, there will be no time for observers to go along with an instructor for a 'ride along'.

Demick

I think that I mis-spoke a few posts ago when I said that GGR was lax with their rule on non-Porsches. What I should have said is that they do allow some non-Porsche cars to participate (maybe 1 or 2 per autocross), but those drivers are always PCA members. So they have stuck by their rule of Porsche or PCA member to participate.

Demick

Let me clarify a few things.....

Demick is right. This is a GGR-PCA event. All their rules apply.

Please remember that the WCC was supposed to happen in another part of CA altogether but didn't happen mainly due to complexities around the AX site. We are damn lucky to 1) have an AX, and 2) have a 914 only AX.

GGR is taking care of the site, insurance, and organization. I arranged to get a 2nd trailer from another region to set up our own 914 track and run a 914 only event. GGR blessed this idea with some coaxing :-). A few volunteers that don't know a 914 club exists will be there to help us run a safe and fun event. While we are paying $35 a piece for the honor, we don't make the rules, and won't make the rules.

Its already been said, but I'll say it again. Non-Porsches don't run unless the owners are PCA members. Solution: drive a 914 or Porsche to the 914 AX event, OR join PCA. Its not hard. I don't want any part of people racing rental cars.



Not quite. For insurance reasons, there are no joy rides. The only 2 person rides include a qualified GGR instructor as a passenger or driver. The rest are solo. We should have at least 5 914 instructors and I am happy to include a passenger in every run I get.

As far as instructors, GGR technically requires 1:1 ratio of instructor to NEW drivers. This sometimes gets stretched to 2:1 in seperate run groups when there's a shortage of instructors. GGR is also in charge of WHO is an instructor. I wouldn't count on any out of state persons being blessed as instructors - there's no history.

Let me finish by saying this event will be incredibly fun for everyone. 914s are excellent AX cars and there are some outstanding drivers coming out. I want everyone to have fun and enjoy themselves. The rules and procedures promote the club and most importantly- a safe event.

THANKS! Rob

Here's an idea....

Can out of town participants without 914s get matched up with people who are willing to let them drive their cars in the AX? There's no rule against having 2-3 drivers using 1 car.

Demick, in your email questionnaire could you ask if the participant is willing to let someone drive their car?

OK. I will add that to the questionnaire.

Demick