Full Version: Suspension markings
I remember this being brought up before, possibly by myself, but I can't find any trace of it so I thought I would atart a new thead specifically dedicated to suspensions and in this case factory makings on them. These pics are from Jim McCloeds 73. All markings are on the rear trailing arms and I could find no evidence of anything onthe front suspension. Notice there is one brushed on and also one stamped mark on each side.
Good Pix of some as original at post #75 here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...01921&st=60
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...01921&st=60
QUOTE(scotty b @ Feb 2 2010, 06:48 PM) 
I remember this being brought up before, possibly by myself, but I can't find any trace of it so I thought I would atart a new thead specifically dedicated to suspensions and in this case factory makings on them. These pics are from Jim McCloeds 73. All markings are on the rear trailing arms and I could find no evidence of anything onthe front suspension. Notice there is one brushed on and also one stamped mark on each side.
Scotty,
I had similar brushed on "things" on the trailing arms of my 72. Don't remenber the eaxact markings, and they disappeared 20 plus years ago when the suspension ieces were refinished. Don't remember any stampings on the rear, but there were still partno tags on the front arms. Alas, long gone too, and since I never envisioned having this car this long I took no pics.
Interesting stuff however. Ranks right up there with the "codes" stamped on the cooling tin.
Pat
Since we are now searching for the arcane and obscure, I will offer up the following two photos of my '70/4. Note the number on the driver's side trailing arm, and the "marks" on the pasenger's side. Neither trailing arm has been refinished, nor for that matter, has either one been kept particularly clean.
Here's a rear marking on my '74. When the arm was refinished, the marking was masked off to save it.
Paul
Click to view attachment
Paul
Click to view attachment
Here ya go...
1974 914 2.0 trailing arm marks.
The number 1 (in a box) shows up well on both arms.
In fact, the arms look almost new. Dirty but new, and with no rust. If I clean the dust off, they probably would shine.
This car is a puzzler. 57K in the first three years since 1974, and 13K since 1977.
Some parts look remarkably new, rubber is soft, the upholstery is really good. The carpet under the non factory floor pads looks like the day it left the factory.
Pretty surprising considering the rest of the car is rusted out. I'm thinking it stayed in a garage most of it's life after being driven in a salty winter. Driver must have liked to "launch" the car considering the condition of the first gear slider
I've found more factory build marks that will be photographed as it comes apart. I know there are marks on the rubber noise pad glued to the bulkhead inside the car. The marks are white chalk or grease pencil and include those funny european 5's.
Ken
1974 914 2.0 trailing arm marks.
The number 1 (in a box) shows up well on both arms.
In fact, the arms look almost new. Dirty but new, and with no rust. If I clean the dust off, they probably would shine.
This car is a puzzler. 57K in the first three years since 1974, and 13K since 1977.
Some parts look remarkably new, rubber is soft, the upholstery is really good. The carpet under the non factory floor pads looks like the day it left the factory.
Pretty surprising considering the rest of the car is rusted out. I'm thinking it stayed in a garage most of it's life after being driven in a salty winter. Driver must have liked to "launch" the car considering the condition of the first gear slider
I've found more factory build marks that will be photographed as it comes apart. I know there are marks on the rubber noise pad glued to the bulkhead inside the car. The marks are white chalk or grease pencil and include those funny european 5's.
Ken
Interesting thread......
I've always wondered about these markings the trailing arms.
Does anyone know what they mean?
Here's a pic of my early '73 (4732900036).
Speaking of markings, and while off-topic for this thread, I saw another marking inside the left side headlight bucket showing "37" ( with the european horizontal slash through the vertical of the "7").
Anyone else have similar markings?
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
I've always wondered about these markings the trailing arms.
Does anyone know what they mean?
Here's a pic of my early '73 (4732900036).
Speaking of markings, and while off-topic for this thread, I saw another marking inside the left side headlight bucket showing "37" ( with the european horizontal slash through the vertical of the "7").
Anyone else have similar markings?
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment
These are passenger and driver side trailing arm markings from my '76, number 3947.
Cool post. These are from the Raspberry car. It's a 73. Based on photos posted by others there may be brushed on markings behind the tire I didn't notice. I'll have to look...
Left side
I found these on Mark's front suspension upon dissassembly. Note the small blue mark also on the adjuster.
From a real six...
Here are my cave paintings...circular and square markings. Sorry, I didn't think to take a close-up.
On the passenger's side trailing arm (same thing on driver's side). Mean anything more than OK? Factory or manufacturer marking? No other markings on trailing arms that I could find.
I'll stab a guess at this.
based on what we cracked with regard to engine stamps for 74 1.8s and some other 914 models.
the trailing arms would likely have been fabricated and assembled as an entire component at another VW factory.
it is very unlikely that this component was made at karmann.
(the front suspension and steering components for instance were closely shared with the 911 so likely came in from whoever made the bits for porsche and usually sent them to stuttgart for the 911s).
rear suspension is largely unique to the 914 and likely had another source.
this would be similar to engines that were assembled at hanover and sent out to other factories where cars were being assembled.
most of these trailing arms are marked with a K. i would say that is the letter that VW allocated to the 914 trailing arm. other VW models likely had a different letter assigned. like engines during the model life the letter could have changed from year to year for each model.
the K stamp is identical in typography to the engine number code stamps. the letter stamp is the basis for my guess its stamped on when the trailing arm component was finished at the factory these suspension sub components were made.
as to the other marking. a clue is perhaps in the karmann assembly line photos.
(or other VW assembly lines also give a clue)
all the suspension and drive train components were assembled together on a flat jig for the final stages of assembly and then mating to the finished and trimmed body.
i think the flat jig was lifted up the bodies for bolting up (though its a little unclear how that worked at karmann). i think all the components were positioned on the suspension including springs and shocks while it was on the jig.
given that they offered different spring rates and different shocks from factory as options or spec - and these bits may have been sub assembled away from the jigs i'd guess the hand painted numbers are about that. ie a rear suspension trailing arm was bolted up to a shock and spring away from the jig and possibly even stockpiled. this hand painted marking might have gone on the trailing arm at that point, in the karmman factory.
the hand painted marking may have designated the configuration of the assembled sub component. to ensure the correct one was picked up by an assembly worker and brought to the jig for the particular build/order. the build paper work probably had the code on it.
but its just a guess.
i'd be reasonably certainly about the stamped letter.
the hand painted number not.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
based on what we cracked with regard to engine stamps for 74 1.8s and some other 914 models.
the trailing arms would likely have been fabricated and assembled as an entire component at another VW factory.
it is very unlikely that this component was made at karmann.
(the front suspension and steering components for instance were closely shared with the 911 so likely came in from whoever made the bits for porsche and usually sent them to stuttgart for the 911s).
rear suspension is largely unique to the 914 and likely had another source.
this would be similar to engines that were assembled at hanover and sent out to other factories where cars were being assembled.
most of these trailing arms are marked with a K. i would say that is the letter that VW allocated to the 914 trailing arm. other VW models likely had a different letter assigned. like engines during the model life the letter could have changed from year to year for each model.
the K stamp is identical in typography to the engine number code stamps. the letter stamp is the basis for my guess its stamped on when the trailing arm component was finished at the factory these suspension sub components were made.
as to the other marking. a clue is perhaps in the karmann assembly line photos.
(or other VW assembly lines also give a clue)
all the suspension and drive train components were assembled together on a flat jig for the final stages of assembly and then mating to the finished and trimmed body.
i think the flat jig was lifted up the bodies for bolting up (though its a little unclear how that worked at karmann). i think all the components were positioned on the suspension including springs and shocks while it was on the jig.
given that they offered different spring rates and different shocks from factory as options or spec - and these bits may have been sub assembled away from the jigs i'd guess the hand painted numbers are about that. ie a rear suspension trailing arm was bolted up to a shock and spring away from the jig and possibly even stockpiled. this hand painted marking might have gone on the trailing arm at that point, in the karmman factory.
the hand painted marking may have designated the configuration of the assembled sub component. to ensure the correct one was picked up by an assembly worker and brought to the jig for the particular build/order. the build paper work probably had the code on it.
but its just a guess.
i'd be reasonably certainly about the stamped letter.
the hand painted number not.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
to give a bit more of a clue.
look closely at k factory photo of 914 being built.
karmann ran a different idea of a factory layout to the fully moving assembly lines that VW used in its larger factories.
karmann had something in between an old style hand building coachworks and a modern assembly line.
the overhead conveyor from what i can work out did not move continuously with a car progressively being built up.
instead they seemed to use the overhead conveyor sometimes (but not always)to move different stages of a build around the factory to static work stations arranged along the length of an aisle.
as an aside they were assembling many different models and from different makers in the one final assembly hall. the body shell hall was a separate building joined to the assembly hall via the conveyor across a street.
the way it seemed to work is all the drivetrain/suspension jigs would have been set up down the length of the aisle. on these jigs would have been set up the components for each car according to the build sheet which matched the customer or inventory order being placed.
the trimmed bodies which you can see in the photo in the background in the next aisle were also being assembled in a static work station down the length of the aisle and also to a particular order/build.
when the trimmed shells were completed they were rolled to the end of the aisle on wheeled dollies in the order they were being built and hooked up to the conveyor.
you can see in other photos the conveyor dipped down at the end of aisles to allow this transfer of the trimmed shells to the conveyor cradles to happen.
the trimmed body shells would then have been run in order down the next aisle and stopped in position over the suspension and drive train jigs. then the suspension components would have been lifted up and bolted on.
in the photo above you can work out that the front suspension components are being lifted up from the jigs to the right and the cars are facing the photographer. the men in the photos looking at the camera are lifting and fitting the front suspension only.
if you look to the left you can see there is a second line of jigs and these are for the engine gearbox and rear suspension jigs. look closely and you see the rear drivetrain component jigs are set up such that the muffler is facing the photographer and the engine is pointing away. at the top of the photo you can see there are conveyor chain links and track.
what must have happened is after all the front suspension was bolted up, the conveyor was restarted and the bodies then turned through a 180 degree bend at the end and came back down this aisle in the opposite direction and then was stopped with each body over head of its designated drive train components. these were then lifted up and all bolted on. along with the wheels which you can see hanging on cradles.
then the conveyor was run again and the cars now on wheels were dropped off the conveyor cradle and run down the final aisle on its wheels. there are photos of the k factory showing this final aisle where the cars are hooked up to a moving rail or track in the floor and are moved along and off the line that way.
what it would have meant is that each jig would have to have the correct set up of drivetrain components in position on it for the correct body that would stop overhead.
you can see from the photo looking carefully the closest car is standard euro spec.
but the car just behind it would be either a japanese spec or possibly swedish spec.
its got side indicator warts. they were not necessarily building these cars in what we would think of as rational batches according to market. if anything it looks like they ran them in body paint batches maybe. or who knows?
a co-ordination exercise according to karmann factory production methods.
all the stamped codes on engine and suspension components would have made this possible and more foolproof to do for assembly line workers.
the big conveyor overhead moved stuff around the factory and dispersed it over the entire factory floor to where the bits were needed.
i suspect it ran at designated times to do very specific tasks.
this is the bit that is different from the way the conveyors were used at wolfsburg and the larger VW factories. there the conveyors ran more like henry ford's methodology.
to give an idea K could run the conveyor to take batches of tyres and wheels over to where bmw coupes were being put together in the same hall. you can see this in some period photos. there is all sorts of stuff hanging from the conveyor. not really cars necessarily in some kind of continuous moving linear line.
it was also used to run batches of body shells over from the body shell hall.
at certain designated times it would have picked up a line of completed 914 body shells and ran them as a batch through the suspension drive train aisle. while that was going on the conveyor would not have been available to move other stuff around the factory.
(its very clear from factory photos that the conveyor was a single continuous conveyor that looped all around the factory overhead).
wherever the body shell was being done it had to end up in time and space in a line over exactly the right jig with the right stuff being laid for that car - also in a long line the length of an aisle.
you can work it all out from the column grid numbers which are painted on the structural columns of the factory. in photos from the late 50s to the early 70s the column grid numbers never change. you can work out just where the photographers were standing in the factory and get a really good idea of just how it was done.
the conveyor.
it tracked around the roof zone everywhere in the assembly hall and did multiple tasks.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
look closely at k factory photo of 914 being built.
karmann ran a different idea of a factory layout to the fully moving assembly lines that VW used in its larger factories.
karmann had something in between an old style hand building coachworks and a modern assembly line.
the overhead conveyor from what i can work out did not move continuously with a car progressively being built up.
instead they seemed to use the overhead conveyor sometimes (but not always)to move different stages of a build around the factory to static work stations arranged along the length of an aisle.
as an aside they were assembling many different models and from different makers in the one final assembly hall. the body shell hall was a separate building joined to the assembly hall via the conveyor across a street.
the way it seemed to work is all the drivetrain/suspension jigs would have been set up down the length of the aisle. on these jigs would have been set up the components for each car according to the build sheet which matched the customer or inventory order being placed.
the trimmed bodies which you can see in the photo in the background in the next aisle were also being assembled in a static work station down the length of the aisle and also to a particular order/build.
when the trimmed shells were completed they were rolled to the end of the aisle on wheeled dollies in the order they were being built and hooked up to the conveyor.
you can see in other photos the conveyor dipped down at the end of aisles to allow this transfer of the trimmed shells to the conveyor cradles to happen.
the trimmed body shells would then have been run in order down the next aisle and stopped in position over the suspension and drive train jigs. then the suspension components would have been lifted up and bolted on.
in the photo above you can work out that the front suspension components are being lifted up from the jigs to the right and the cars are facing the photographer. the men in the photos looking at the camera are lifting and fitting the front suspension only.
if you look to the left you can see there is a second line of jigs and these are for the engine gearbox and rear suspension jigs. look closely and you see the rear drivetrain component jigs are set up such that the muffler is facing the photographer and the engine is pointing away. at the top of the photo you can see there are conveyor chain links and track.
what must have happened is after all the front suspension was bolted up, the conveyor was restarted and the bodies then turned through a 180 degree bend at the end and came back down this aisle in the opposite direction and then was stopped with each body over head of its designated drive train components. these were then lifted up and all bolted on. along with the wheels which you can see hanging on cradles.
then the conveyor was run again and the cars now on wheels were dropped off the conveyor cradle and run down the final aisle on its wheels. there are photos of the k factory showing this final aisle where the cars are hooked up to a moving rail or track in the floor and are moved along and off the line that way.
what it would have meant is that each jig would have to have the correct set up of drivetrain components in position on it for the correct body that would stop overhead.
you can see from the photo looking carefully the closest car is standard euro spec.
but the car just behind it would be either a japanese spec or possibly swedish spec.
its got side indicator warts. they were not necessarily building these cars in what we would think of as rational batches according to market. if anything it looks like they ran them in body paint batches maybe. or who knows?
a co-ordination exercise according to karmann factory production methods.
all the stamped codes on engine and suspension components would have made this possible and more foolproof to do for assembly line workers.
the big conveyor overhead moved stuff around the factory and dispersed it over the entire factory floor to where the bits were needed.
i suspect it ran at designated times to do very specific tasks.
this is the bit that is different from the way the conveyors were used at wolfsburg and the larger VW factories. there the conveyors ran more like henry ford's methodology.
to give an idea K could run the conveyor to take batches of tyres and wheels over to where bmw coupes were being put together in the same hall. you can see this in some period photos. there is all sorts of stuff hanging from the conveyor. not really cars necessarily in some kind of continuous moving linear line.
it was also used to run batches of body shells over from the body shell hall.
at certain designated times it would have picked up a line of completed 914 body shells and ran them as a batch through the suspension drive train aisle. while that was going on the conveyor would not have been available to move other stuff around the factory.
(its very clear from factory photos that the conveyor was a single continuous conveyor that looped all around the factory overhead).
wherever the body shell was being done it had to end up in time and space in a line over exactly the right jig with the right stuff being laid for that car - also in a long line the length of an aisle.
you can work it all out from the column grid numbers which are painted on the structural columns of the factory. in photos from the late 50s to the early 70s the column grid numbers never change. you can work out just where the photographers were standing in the factory and get a really good idea of just how it was done.
the conveyor.
it tracked around the roof zone everywhere in the assembly hall and did multiple tasks.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Excellent synopsis... it's also interesting to see how many models Karmann juggled at the same time. First image includes VW T34s, 914s and Porsche 911/912s. Volkswagen replaced the T34 with the 914 so it's fascinating to see them both on the line at once.
Second image shows VW Cabrios alongside 356T5 Hardtops. Karmann also produced 356B Cabrios on which the T5 Hardtops were based. T6 B Hardtops have a taller windscreen and none of the cabrio details.
yes @Bullethead
i had to take so many insults 30 years ago from snob 911 owners about how my car was a VW built in a VW factory and they had a porsche built at the porsche factory. (this was from guys who owned short wheel base 60s 911s too).
yet every single 912 (i believe) was fully made to the same amount as a 914 was before it was hooked up to that overhead cradle. instead of going on the conveyor they rolled them out the back door and shipped them to stuttgart sans suspension and drive train.
and in stuttgart conditions were more primitive for the workers?
see photos of guys in the assembly hall at stuttgart lying on their backs underneath cars which are on dollies and installing engines, suspension etc. even in the early 70s.
as you note many a 911 trimmed body was built to the same level as well by karmann right through the 60s. reutter did not do them all by any means.
then there are the 356Cs built by karmann the same way.
the only thing that was different about 914/4 s is they did a 180 degree turn at the end of the body and trim aisle and went down a reasonably civilised set up and had their mechanicals installed.
if only i had known this in the 1990s.
i'd call a 914 a rationally built porsche. but what would i know?
after this time the karmann factory swings over big time to being a VW facility.
they pumped the siroccos out of the assembly hall in BIG numbers.
it took over the space.
karmann making a 911/912 body shell across the road in the body shell factory.
not made in stuttgart!
nice jig.
Click to view attachment
i had to take so many insults 30 years ago from snob 911 owners about how my car was a VW built in a VW factory and they had a porsche built at the porsche factory. (this was from guys who owned short wheel base 60s 911s too).
yet every single 912 (i believe) was fully made to the same amount as a 914 was before it was hooked up to that overhead cradle. instead of going on the conveyor they rolled them out the back door and shipped them to stuttgart sans suspension and drive train.
and in stuttgart conditions were more primitive for the workers?
see photos of guys in the assembly hall at stuttgart lying on their backs underneath cars which are on dollies and installing engines, suspension etc. even in the early 70s.
as you note many a 911 trimmed body was built to the same level as well by karmann right through the 60s. reutter did not do them all by any means.
then there are the 356Cs built by karmann the same way.
the only thing that was different about 914/4 s is they did a 180 degree turn at the end of the body and trim aisle and went down a reasonably civilised set up and had their mechanicals installed.
if only i had known this in the 1990s.
i'd call a 914 a rationally built porsche. but what would i know?
after this time the karmann factory swings over big time to being a VW facility.
they pumped the siroccos out of the assembly hall in BIG numbers.
it took over the space.
karmann making a 911/912 body shell across the road in the body shell factory.
not made in stuttgart!
nice jig.
Click to view attachment
took a look at my 01/74, got curious.
all i can still see is what i believe are the traces of a K in a circle on rhs.
overshot with undercoating when car was new.
whatever is there on lhs has undercoating over it and is invisible.
when i take wheels off next will look for anything else.
but a wipe down of arm further along would appear to indicate nothing else is there on either side.
Click to view attachment
all i can still see is what i believe are the traces of a K in a circle on rhs.
overshot with undercoating when car was new.
whatever is there on lhs has undercoating over it and is invisible.
when i take wheels off next will look for anything else.
but a wipe down of arm further along would appear to indicate nothing else is there on either side.
Click to view attachment
example from files on ECA/B engine research.
06/74 1.8
1 in square on left. K in circle on right. no other markings.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
06/74 1.8
1 in square on left. K in circle on right. no other markings.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
I am revising this post because i have looked over the photos on this thread and noticed something about the painted numbers and the stamps in relation to their orientation on the trailing arms.
1.
the hand painted numbers on the left hand trailing arm appear upside down.
the hand painted painted numbers on the right hand side appear right side up.
examples from page 1 of this thread.
rhs top. lhs bottom image.
Click to view attachment
when you look close even the K stamps seem to have the same bias.
i noticed this image from page 1 also.
it suggested set of trailing arms set up on a bench in this orientation.
Click to view attachment
when you arrange them like this the upside down and right way around markings make sense. as if they have been in a test jig or check measuring jig and then marked up as a pair.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
i think prior to reaching the assembly line these trailing arms get checked to see if they are within tolerance and marked up accordingly. they are put in some kind of test or check jig which is horizontal with the trailing arm bearing shaft pointing up. the resulats are painted on and marked up. probably to assist with the final wheel alignment likley done right at the end of the assembly line.
i'm not sure exactly what the numbers mean as they don't make a lot of sense to me in terms of alignment values.
but i think the K means korrekt. (correct) the circle means zero or nought.
correct with 0 compensation required.
the other numbers and maybe the square with a 1 in it are guidance to compensate for a trailing arm that is not quite true or straight but is still within acceptable tolerance.
????????????
for sure i think these things were marked up well before they got to the final installation jig on the production line where they would have arrived as a completed component with brake lines, bearings, hub, brake disc and caliper etc.
the way those markings are upside down and right way up side to side of car is very suggestive to me that the trailing arms are marked up elsewhere and prior to final assembly and marked up as a pair.
1.
the hand painted numbers on the left hand trailing arm appear upside down.
the hand painted painted numbers on the right hand side appear right side up.
examples from page 1 of this thread.
rhs top. lhs bottom image.
Click to view attachment
when you look close even the K stamps seem to have the same bias.
i noticed this image from page 1 also.
it suggested set of trailing arms set up on a bench in this orientation.
Click to view attachment
when you arrange them like this the upside down and right way around markings make sense. as if they have been in a test jig or check measuring jig and then marked up as a pair.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
i think prior to reaching the assembly line these trailing arms get checked to see if they are within tolerance and marked up accordingly. they are put in some kind of test or check jig which is horizontal with the trailing arm bearing shaft pointing up. the resulats are painted on and marked up. probably to assist with the final wheel alignment likley done right at the end of the assembly line.
i'm not sure exactly what the numbers mean as they don't make a lot of sense to me in terms of alignment values.
but i think the K means korrekt. (correct) the circle means zero or nought.
correct with 0 compensation required.
the other numbers and maybe the square with a 1 in it are guidance to compensate for a trailing arm that is not quite true or straight but is still within acceptable tolerance.
????????????
for sure i think these things were marked up well before they got to the final installation jig on the production line where they would have arrived as a completed component with brake lines, bearings, hub, brake disc and caliper etc.
the way those markings are upside down and right way up side to side of car is very suggestive to me that the trailing arms are marked up elsewhere and prior to final assembly and marked up as a pair.
another example from L Jet research.
05/74 1.8.
lhs traces of square with 1 (?), rhs square with 1
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
of interest - driveshaft has a number on it. 9 or 6 ?
05/74 1.8.
lhs traces of square with 1 (?), rhs square with 1
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
of interest - driveshaft has a number on it. 9 or 6 ?
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