QUOTE(MDG @ Feb 25 2010, 02:35 PM)
QUOTE(Tom_T @ Feb 25 2010, 04:56 PM)
Beg to differ Mike - but the 356, 911/912 & 914 were no frills but well engineered & excellent performing sports cars.
Right. But that's not my point. The cars you mentioned may be 'no frills' by todays standard. Not so much when they were new.
But my point has nothing to do with that; it's COST I'm talking about. A new 914-6 was priced uncomfortably close to a 911. It was never (1970's pricing) a $2500.00 car. In fact, all the other models you mentioned were also pricey in their day.
What I am saying is Porsche is not about to change their tune and make a $30k car, or going back to 1970, a $1,850.00 914-6.
They are making it now. It's called a Cayman. If that thing had come with a targa top, and the Boxster hadn't come at all, every auto journalist in the world would have gone, 'Huh, Porsche made a new 914-6.'
Mike - Cayman is
waaaay too expensive for the market segment which Porsche needs to captue early & young. How many 20-somethings & early 30's buyers do you know who can pop for a $60-80k +/- Cayman/Boxster today!!?? I'd venture to say not many, but easily a heck of a lot for $30-60k +/- IMHO.
And I'm not speaking relative "frills vs. no frills" then & today, as relativism doesn't always work as a justification in product design - even though the marketing gurus will try to "sell" folks that way!
I'm saying to go back to a more basic fun sports car
as an option in the PAG line-up. Porsche has done that with almost every generation: 356 Speedster, 912/912E & the 914, 928/944/968, Boxster & now Boxster Speedster, & who knows what next!!??
Moreover, the 356 & 911/912/930 series of that 60's-80's era were
hand built sports cars, whereas all Porsches are ALL assembly line built today - as the 914/4 & 928/944/968 were in their day.
Even the first base Boxster
started initially in the price-point range we're talking about here for a 6 at $40-50k+/- ~ but as with the 911/912 & 924/944/968 series ~
price creep comes in & now you have $61k for the "new stripped down 2800 lb. Speedster" - up to almost $100k for the loaded BoxsterS/CaymanS ~
just where the 911 series was just a few years ago! Top half of 5-figures is a non-starter for most young professionals etc. wanting to enter the market with a Porsche as their "first dream car."
So Porsche has again "lost" that crucial initial entry Porsche buyer $30-$60k window,
and salaries are frozen or dropping in this economy - NOT ever rising. Every maker needs to keep those new buyers coming in the door, in order to build brand loyalty early on, and used Porsches just won't cut it in that market segment for most of the masses.
Let's face it - we're ALL borderline insane on 914world with our inane 914 Luv!
.... but most everyday buyers aren't like us, & they want a DD Porsche that they can afford & depend upon running without much fussing, and the younger & more frugal ones want it in the mid-5-figure price range!
I do understand where you're coming from on the cost premise, but have a different take on it. First - you're comparing 914-6 with a Retro-914-4 price range of $30-40k, whereas more likely the hot 4-turbo &/or 6 would be in the next bracket(s) of $40-50k & $50-60k respectively.
The problem was that Porsche tried to semi-hand build the 914-6 like the 911's of the day, when they really needed a mass production price to keep the price under the hand built 911T especially, as well as for more differentiation of what you get for the money of 914-6 vs. 911T. Clearly less than 10% didn't give an appropriate spread, & that was wiped out after you added some options to the 914-6 price.
And on that topic, marketing-wise they "screwed the pooch" by marketing it as some blend of VW-Porsche, rather than as they did here in the USA as just a Porsche! I'd venture to say that - had Porsche sent 6 drive-trains to Karmann for assembly line builds of both 4s & 6s at a cost savings -
but marketed it as a "pure Porsche" (albeit with VW components & assembly assistance) - that it MAY NOT have had the identity crisis in the market, & would definitely had a better price difference between the 911s. Of course without Mr. Peabody's time machine, we'll never know for sure!
Also, from an econometric analysis perspective - you have to take out of your comparison above - the Dollar vs. Mark exchange rate gyrations of the 1970's - resulting from before they took the currencies off the gold standard & the wild fluctuations afterward while the currency markets settled; as well as the 70's 1st & 2nd Oil Crisis induced inflation (just as the recent one in `08 jacked up all prices - not just fuel costs).
Additionally, new materials & production methods today mitigate some of the manufacturing costs of cars today - so it's not a straight line doubling of costs per decade sort of regression calculation. It would be a better analysis to look at the new Boxster Speedster at $61k ~ & analyze where costs would be saved by further cuts, a smaller & lighter platform (body & chassis), & a smaller displacement high-output motor(s).
The question is really whether Porsche could build a 2/3's scale Boxster - as in the sketch for $30-40k in a basic sporty 4 banger, & $40-60K for increased output power plants, hybrids, EVs, etc., & still attract enough buyers in that price-point range worldwide (40-60% in the US), to make back their investment & a respectable profit margin -
but NOT a high end Porsche profit margin.
BMW, Jag, etc. have all got lower margin cars to capture these buyers early - not
just to make huge profits now - but also to build a pipeline of future move-up buyers who will pop for the $100+k & ever growing Boxster/Cayman bill, & then will pay more for 911 series cars over the years -
IF they keep them satisfied as customers. The name of that game is brand loyalty, as Toyota is struggling with now. BTW - it took Audi a decade to recover from their similar mishandling of their version of the runaway acceleration problem in the 70's-80's.
VW sees that entry buyer capture problem, and the product differentiation between a VW sports sedan, an Audi TT/etc., & a range of Porsche products - vs. their top-top end Bentley & Bugatti top of the pyramid niche products which have absolutely no entry strategy for their exclusive limited production products. So you're absolutely right on them not doing a VW nor an Audi 914-Redux, but I think (& hope) that the jury is still out for one in the offing from Porsche.
And please do keep in mind that we're just having a discussion here, and I'm not trying to disparage you nor anyone else in any way for differing opinions!