I saw these from RSR and they look pretty sweet. Does anyone run these? I have 911 Boge struts with 3.5 spacing now. Do you know if the A caliper will bolt up to these? What weight spring do I need? It'll be on a street/track 6. I'd like it more track than street. Is there something better or cheaper out there?

Those are great struts since they have raised spindles.

I've used them with aluminum 's' calipers and 930 calipers.

Personally I'd use those with torsion bars unless you have tube framed the front of your 914 or done a lot of structural work to it. You can just buy the struts without coil springs and that other hardware.

Talk to Clint at Rebelracingproducts.com. Those look like his upper spring perches, and regardless of whether you go torsion or coil over, he can get you set up. And yes, those bilstein struts are the 3.5" spacing, good for the A, S and 930 calipers.

Has anyone seen major chassis a 914 chassis that has cracked around all the spot welds due to lack of strengthening on a street/tack 6? Keep in mind we're talking about a tracked car you drive to and from the track, not a full out slick hardcore car. It seems more people talk about stiffening based on what others have said, and less of "my chassis was jacked the F up!"

what is te advantage of coil over versus torsion bar? weight? geometry flexibility? cool factor?

INQUIRING MINDS want to KNOW

probably all 3, def. cool factor. but I'd like to know.

I can't see the cost being practical for street use tho.

the advantage/disadvantage of a coil over is:
-much lighter weight/ you are putting sprung weight on the strut itself
-huge amount of spring rates to choose from ( I think in either 5 or 10lb increments /... between hollow and solid, 10 options?
-can combine two springs, ie: tenders, helpers, heavy and light/ ... just what the torsion gives
-at the track quick change/not that much hard to change, but not much fine tuning either.

High end springs like Eibach cost upwards about $170 set depending on the size and length. However, I know you can get just as good quality smaller name brands for less than $80 set. Consider a couple sets of different spring rates for different driving scenarios will cost you about the same as a set of nice torsion bars.

If your looking for cool, your a tool... and should buy these cause every new must-have-sportscars have these equipped and every cool footballer has these on their Range Rovers. Even Paris Hilton runs coil overs on her new dogs! BUY THEM NOW! From Clint, he will set you up properly even though your goal is somewhat, well, I'm not sure what word to use... anyone?

EDIT: I am running 22mm hollow torsion bars... car has never driven in my hands. I have Boge A struts, Koni inserts... they were free.

Cool factor. Don't they look bitchin?

The weight is just being moved from the bottom of the car to as high as you can put it in the front. Seems like a step backwards to me...

The geometry remains the same.

The only racecars porsche ran with these had extensive modifications to the front end to stiffen them. Just because people don't have broken front ends doesn't mean they aren't flexing all over the place when they would have been otherwise stable. You move the spring forces from the bottom of the car where the A-Arms mount to the tops of the struts.

If you have considered those factors and determined that the loads and advantages of the coilover setup are necessary for your racecar, you've probably already got them on there and aren't asking about it on a web forum.

It wouldn't make sense to run these with torsion bars. I can get my spindles raised far cheaper than these units.

I was hoping to get some input from someone who actually has these installed.

I run them on my blue car. With torsion bars.

And it does make sense to run them with torsion bars. They are the cheapest way to get good front struts with a large bearing surface, raised spindles, upside down cartridges and the bilstein valving in the front of your porsche.

If you just want raised spindles you can get a set of 911 struts hacked up, but I wouldn't trust them afterwards on a fast car with a lot of grip. That might just be paranoia though, I'm sure they work wonderfully for some people.

I just don't see any weight savings. Torsion bars are not *that* heavy, plus, they're about as low in the car as you can get.


The only real advantage i see is better spring rate adjust-ability as you can choose from a much larger selection of different springs.

Torsion bar selection on the other hand is somewhat limited ...
Andy

That and progressive springs. I haven't found any progressive torsion bars yet


The general idea is that the selection isn't as cut-and-dried as "bolt this on your car and go faster". It's more like "I've exhausted all the possibilities of working with the Porsche stuff ( hundreds of hours of testing ), so I need to go with something more advanced."


That's why I love those RSR struts. They aren't adjustable, they just work. You could run yourself ragged in circles ( and broke ) with four way adjustable shocks and spring rates and progressive springs and all sorts of clever stuff and never end up with a combination that works all the way.

The cheapest way would be to raise the spindles on the bilstein strut, $295 a pair. Add another $200 and you can decamber them. Then toss in the bilstein cartridge. Get it revalved to your liking.

I don't know if you realize this but those RSR struts I pictured have been "hacked up" as you say. Those spindles where raised and gussets welded in.

I like coilovers because setup changes are a snap and you can get the corner balance perfect. I ran them on my SCCA Spec Racer.

Does no one run coilovers up front?

There is a difference between struts that have higher spindle points as manufactured by bilstein and struts that have had the previous welds ground off and are rewelded higher up. But if they work for you hey that's great. I have a pair of 930 struts and a pair of RSR struts here if you'd like for me to take some pictures.

You can't corner balance your car right with torsion bars? I've never had trouble with that.

It sounds to me like you've already decided you need these for your car. I'd suggest you figure out approximately what spring rate you currently run with torsion bars and get those with some nice Eibach coils.

You should be able to find the twist rate on your torsion bars and multiply that by the moment produced by your A-arm to find the approximate spring rate you need.

I agree with Chris H, corner balancing on torsion bars shouldn't be hard... no less than coil overs.

Raising the overall weight of some springs and perches, lets assume 6lbs, 18inches center mass vertical, from the position of the torsion bars.

Now lets go ape here, and compare our beloved 914 to a totally different car. In very rough numbers(from what i've done research on), when adding weight to Formula 1 cars, each 10 kg slows the car down roughly 0.4% (around 0.3 seconds a lap depending on the track), at .9kW/kg or 1250hp/tonne.

Now, how does that 6lbs sound? Don't eat those Chipotle burritos and steer clear of those beers the week before your track event... you'll make up the time that way. Keep it relative guys. Cheers.

I haven't decided on anything. Had my mind been made up I wouldn't have posted my question here. I was doing some research and saw what looked like a slick component.

I'm at the point in my build where I need to invest in the suspension As with anything people tend to gravitate to what they know. I know coilovers. Is it the right way to go? I have the slightest idea. It is a familiar option available to me. I'm finding out it's not a popular one.

Ok, so why isn't it popular? Cost, torsion bars are just as good or, as it was put, it jacks your chassis right the F... up? That one had me laughing. From what I'm hearing the RSR struts are the cats ass. The addition of the coilovers not so much.

I don't have adjustable coilovers on the rear of my car yet. With those you can corner balance fairly easy with TBs up front.

Planning to get Von shocks with smart racing front suspension next year, along with ccw or fiske wheels. Complete overkill for a street car I know. But hey when I put the car on a lift I want it to look good.

Most of the time, people fallow the factory components/setup because we have a bias love for the brand. I'm guilty of it. Because RSR's represent the pinnacle of Porsche Motorsport during which our 914's were produced, people gravitate toward them. Clint and others will take a perfectly shit Bilstein, Boge, or Koni strut, recondition it, raise the spindle the 19mm you get on the RSR strut, gussets, (even paint it yellow, or pink, whatever you want) send the shock to the manufacturer to be re-valved to whatever you want (even the RSR or 934 180/220-ish valving).

What you get is the SAME shock for less money, but no nostalgic 60deg cut thread on the shaft...(off note: this is a horrible thread for a dirty environment, acme threads are much stronger and when dirt is introduced, far less likely to F up the threads).

Torsions are great. Look how long they have been used on these cars and other manufactures with repeating results. Win after win, and still winning events. No arguments there. These cars were designed to have them, but I'm not convinced that these cars cannot use coil overs as a street/mild trackable car without major stiffing mods.

Torsions do have limitations, why else would Porsche use coil overs now? Much cheaper, refined, lighter, adjustability.

I have to say, was never a fan of the 924 front end... but on that little motorcana bandit, nice work!

a portion of a torsion bar is technically sprung and unsprung also

truly... front coil overs were created to offer more spring options and with a easier spring change at the track...

99.99% of the people that buy these (or any front coil over) never even change springs out for different tracks.

its nearly all bling
(except for the most serious people that are changing springs multiple times a day)

More spring rate choices and easy rate changes, that's about it. After you've developed the car to the point that you can't get stiff enough torsion bars, it's time to move to coilovers. They look cool and it might be nice to tell your ricer friends that you have coilovers, but you don't need them on a street car. Spring rates go along with tires, too. 175 street tires will just slide sideways with really stiff springs. Huge slicks will overwhelm normal springs and bottom the car out very quickly. It's all about the combo, just like everything else. Put a huge cam in a stock injected engine and it won't run. Put huge carbs on a stock engine and it will choke on it's self. Put a 3.6 in a stock car and you can't stop quick enough.

I am making a cheap coilover setup for my car. $2010 budget means you have to be inventive.