It looks like I'm putting together a deal on a Celette. I'm seeing a need for this up here in the great white north more and more.

We have a couple guys right now that could use a very light adjustment to square their chassis'.

Turnaround89 introduced stress in his chassis while welding in chassis stiffeners.

jmill purchased Very very rust free car with a hit to the right front. He has been able to get the front corner pulled back down but now the passenger door is tight.

This is not impossible to fix but even by adjusting the door opening both cars above could have the front suspension pickup points displaced.

Sir Andy's Red car is a clear example of what happens to a "Unit" body car when it is improperly repaired The car "looked" fine. But when Andy tried AX the car it was cocking the front wheel in the air. Some of the best guys around 914World were lending advise but nothing Andy was doing would help. He decided to have the car benched and discovered the car was fudged both front and back. This was the right thing to do. Now the car has a correct chassis and when adjusting the suspension he will get predictible results.

Porsche designed these cars to be repaired on fixtures. No matter how much advise I try to give guys about how to tweek the car back in shape I think were just recreating Sir Andy's car.

The other thing I noticed is guys replacing the rear suspension pickup points with a tape measure. You can do it. It will be as close as the fatigued ear was prior to the rusted one that was removed. But this most likely will be a repete if Andy's car. Sorry to keep using your car as an example Andy. But you eventually identified the issue and had it corrected properly.

Then there's the issue of replacing longs and repairing damage.

Fixture rental for the 914 is still possible and the cost is reasonable. I think with Fixture rental and my labor I could fix the easy stuff for $ 400.00-$ 600.00. I was thinking if over time there were a couple guys that have cars that need light work we could have a weekend event here. BBQ, Bench Racing and chassis work.

Here's a copy of the fixture setup. Notice these locat the transaxle mounts as well as the proper location for the 6 mount.

Click to view attachment

Nice.

Just one more reason to build another chassis....

What's a bench run these days?

I would love to get my hands on one of those, think of the tube chassis you could build on that!

I'm investing a butt load of money on a bench I may only use a couple times a year, maybe. I will likely never get my money back. I only have a 1000 sf garage so this thing will be a space hog. But hey, anything for the 914 community.

To give you an example, when I purchased mine back in the 80's these were 30K when you could buy a Cheif for 7K. The cheif never needed fixtures. The Celette had a floating expense every time you used it. Getting paid by the insurance companies to pull suspension to fit fixtures and fixture rental was near impossible to get paid for. I think the best use for these old benches now are resto work and fixing old german unit bodys.

Hey Rick, I was looking at the internal job lisitings and there are a few for MN.

I'd love to have you guys move here but you'd hate cold weather and the snow we have now. But hey, money talks and Bullshit walks!

Just floating an idea. Would it make sense for us to as a group to buy the fixtures? I don't have any idea of the cost so, I don't even know if it is possible but, I can foresee a time when the fixtures might not worth the steel they are made of. Tying up a set might be prudent for the future.

Dave

I like that idea. I planned on checking into purchasing them myself. The biggest thing I needed to consider in thinking about purchasing the bench was whether or not the fixtures were even available. I think these will eventually become obsolete like the 356 set has.
They could be sent any shop that has a Celette for the cost of shipping no rental cost involved. As much as I would like to copy these, the price of steel, time, and rental cost while you have these tied up in your shop would cost alot.

Let me check into this further next week.

I found out from Greg at Celette that the Blackhawk bench I have was licensened and built for Blackhawk by Celette and the early style fixtures will fit perfectly.

So you might be able to get an old Blackhawk cheaper than the Celette. I see them on eBay with some frequency. I only paid $400 but it was outside some, not pristine, but functional. Oh and I had to make a 1400 round trip to pick it up.

Rick, I've been interested in learning how to straighten these chassis. I also see a need for the expertise to keep these cars properly aligned. Can you describe the process, tools and knowledge needed to straighten the unibody? Also, would this also be a good tool to use when a front or rear clip is replaced?

-- Rob

Check these links.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=103941


I'm trying to help turnaround89 (BTW dude post your name in your sig space) figure out how to correct a problem he seems to have created while welding.

Some of the things you can do will get you close enough without a measuring system or fixtures but only the Celette with correct the pickup points front to back.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=88125&hl=

There is a few things here that you may find helpful as well. Again. This will get you close and maybe close enough for a driver. But as jmill (John) noticed the damage traveled further than originally thought. Even door opening is corrected the front suspension pickup points could be off.

But what you going to do if a body shop tells you it's going to cost you 10K to fix your chassis? Close is pretty good at that point!

You know it! I don't want to work for this BS company any more anyway. 50 today and the roads are dry so I took the 914 out this morning. Went to check out the location is the place I have an interview with Friday.

GL with the bench.

Thanks for the links Rick, I've read/studied both before.

-- Rob

If you can make this happen your my hero.

I'm in on the fixture group buy.

I'm in for contributing for this resource.

I'd be happy to be in on the group buy.

I would be interested in helping out as well

I would help out. Mark Epstein

Now we need a permanent set of fixtures. If we could buy them from Celette, that would be perfect. Otherwise, me may have to find the time and money to duplicate them.

Either way, i'd be happy to contribute!
Andy

Do some taildraggers to help offset the cost, they're rich.
Caiman or home-made dozer?

In one of the related threads I thought I read that there are only three or four sets of Celette 914 fixtures available anymore. I trust whoever has been in touch with them has made it known they should at least offer such fixtures to the 914 community if they decide they no longer need them?

Skip

I'm not sure Celette knows or cares about a 914 community. If we don't take care of ourselves we'll end up like the 356 guys. As I heard Celette discontunued fixture support for the 356. There are a few shops that have them. Very few.

I'll contribute to the fixture cost too.

I'm in on fixture cost.

Dave

I'm in too Rick.. viva la 914!

Ill pitch in to help purchase the fixtures....today i think im going to give hanging my door a shot and fixing the gap and everything...little nervous, but hey, if i screw things up really bad ill haul the car up there.

Knowing that the celette bench is closer to me now, i wouldn't mind building another 914 after this one...ive always wanted an old car that looks like it just rolled out of the factory.

Thanks rick

I guess I'm going to have to retire the Oak tree & Chain.

Great Job Rick

At least upgrade to the central pole holding building & come along strap!

And hell yeah we run blackhawk at my shop and I have to create clamping styles/braces for half the vehicles I pull and you don't get paid shit for that shit, there has to be was a better way

tube frame...

could be bad news... for my wallet!

OK Rick , You said " For old German bodies " right.


That being said, I am to be the first "Old German body to be pulled .

That should straighten out the Back & Hips on this old body. Right !

Dave

So, I have a funny story for you Dave:

A doctor brings his Porsche into his garage mechanic for an engine rebuild.

mech:
Hey doc, what's makes your work worth any more that mine? Hell, I pull cars apart, repair valves and replace parts like oil pumps, which is like what you do as a heart surgeon. Hell What makes your work worth more than mine? Sheeze!

doc:
Try it while the engine is running....

Sorry Dave, can't help your old bones buddy.

I know the fixtures are the key, but why can't the bench be built. It is some steel I-beam and other pieces. I would think the bench is nothing more than a proper frame jig/table with proper attachment points for their fixtures?

Am I way off on this?

The Celette is actually machined. Really. The surface of the frame is planned like a cylinder head. Really. The fixtures are exactly the same dimensions and tolerences as the factory. When used the chassis will meet the original build tolerences.

You can build a table and make one off fixtures. Not a real big issue. But what are you using as a reference.

I have a 1970 280SL in my garage now. I will set this car up on the Celette and check the car. It had all new sheetmetal installed once already. This is the second time for this car. Once I have a base line on the car I plan to build a set of light fixtures for rust repair only. This may or may not come in handy in the future. Who knows.

Gotcha. Makes sense.

The deal is done. I met with the shop owner and paid for it today. I'm having a rollback pick it up and deliver it next week. Photos to follow soon!

Yup, yer nuts. A good kind of nuts, but nuts.

So, what do we owe?

sha-zamm! what the world needs now is more...









...aliens

[i'll buy into the fixtures too... (you know which ones i want! )]

I get the idea that 914s will be saved and enhanced

I am in on the ficture buy. Check , MO , or cash, or Pay Pal ????

I prefer Pay Pal , but your call. This will be a hell of a resourse for the

community. let,s get behind this. Dave

I have a call into the sales rep for Celette. We discussed the possible purchase of fixtures. He was to check with Celette and send me an email. I have yet to hear from him. I'll keep you all in the loop.

this is awesome!!!!!!

You fucking rule!

\m/

I heard back from the Celette rep. They only have one set of fixtures in the midwest. He contacted the factory in France. They would only build them if we ordered 30 sets!

He suggested we rent the fixtures for a couple weeks and copy them. Well he may have said that.. he also said he "may have" heard of other shops doing the same.

How hard is it to copy them? Need capital for rental?

This car group is the best. We are blessed with resources, for sure.

We just may have to help you make that happen.

I didn't hear the rep say that. If he needs a witness, I can testify.

I'm having the bench picked up Monday or Tuesday. I leave for Cali Wednesday. I will take a seriously look at it when I return.

Fixture Rental is $ 65.00 per day plus shipping. Picture a crate half the size of a diningroom table stuffed with lots of steel. So, Say $1000.00 for shipping and rental, and I don't know how much for steel. maybe as much as $ 2000.00. I have no idea.

My thought would be to build a slightly lighter set to use for rust repair. I think they would work fine for collision damage as long as you didn't bolt them to car and use them to pull with.

I have a couple of glaring questions we will need to address before anyone gets excited about sending money.

Q) How would anyone else use them?

We would need a couple benches around the country within the 914 on-line family.

Q) What if someone had their car bolted to the fixtures in the middle of fitting panels and someone else needed them?

We would have to establish some rules and it may suck for someone.

I'm sure there are a few more things.

That pretty much confirms my experience. Only one set of 914 fixtures for the whole of the west coast and no desire to sell them.


Mike Mueller was going to scan the fixtures into CAD to be able to replicate several sets if needed, but we ran out of time last time we rented them.

One would need a lot of steel to make copies, but it's doable.
Andy