New to this, first post.

Trying to get some opinions on an engine rebuild. I've got a 70 914 with the engine in pieces....should I try to get the parts - pistons, rings, bearings ect. or try to find a good used motor. Assuming it's a 1.7.

I know, this is a pretty loaded question.

I guess that depends on what your skill level and what your goals are. I've been bit too many times by buying used motors that weren't any good. If you rebuild your motor you'll at least know what you have in it and you'll have the satisfaction of not having to worry about it. Either way, you'll have to pull the motor. Once its out, you might as well pull it apart and rebuild it.

Naturally, its easy for me to spend your money.

What are your plans for the car?

You might pick up some of your pieces and run them past a machinist to see if the major components are rebuildable. If not, its worth it to find out now before you start spending real money.

-m

Well, living in Stockton you should be able to pick up a running 1.7 for $200 - $300 within a 150 mi. range of home. Check Craig's List or put a "want to buy" post on 914World. So if money is tight this might be your best option. If you have a few thousand $ to spend, talk to Jake Raby and build the best motor you can afford.

... and as an Architect, your time may be too tight with project deadlines & "all nighters" to actually git 'er dun!

If you're looking to have it rebuilt by somebody - so you KNOW that you've got a good running motor backed by a professional shop - then try McMark in the member vendors on here. He's close to you up in Napa & can probably even help you squeeze a bit more HP & Torque out of your 1.7. If you're a real power-hog, then Google for Jake Raby's MassIVe website & look at his 1.7 up-builds (McMark works with him & may be able to do some locally as well).

There also may be other members in the Bay Area & Central Valley near you who can recommend their favorite 914 mechanic to check out as well.

However, if you do have the skills & time to do your own rebuild, then get on the mailing lists of the major 914 parts suppliers for their weekly & other special deals & discounts, then try to time your purchases when they're offering 15% or better off.

Auto Atlanta - various sales 20-30% off
Performance Products/Eckler's - Weekly Specials - often at 15%
Pelican - varies
TC'sGarage - varies
others jump in here, as I'm brain-farting on some others!

Dealers - Porsche Club of America &/or Porsche both offer 20% off at times - PCA has 20% off now thru 3/31/10

Plus some still generally available parts from OEM manufacturers can be had by a Google or price comparison at the various auto suppliers online.

Good Luck!
Tom T (USC, BS-Arch 70)
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Oh &

BTW - my "agree" was with post #2, I too don't trust buying someone else's problem in a used motor, but agree with post #3 re Raby &/or McMark.

BTW#2 - I have my long time factory trained on 914s mechanic Hans Imports down here in OC who did/does my mechanical work & knows them inside out!

Tom T
914 owner since 1975
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Thanks everyone for their input. Yes just looking for a driver...but don't want to spend alot of money. Which I know is a relative term, every car project your going to spend money.

Is there any machine shops closer to Stockton/Sacramento that know the 914's?

Sacramento has a pretty active teener group. Why don't you post a quick intro and question in the following thread: "The March Sacramento Porsche Family Reunion".

Eric Read

Good news,

I found another project car (thanks to Lennie) - a 73 that has most of the parts already, well almost, still minus an engine and transmission. I will add picts as I progress as a form of motivation.

Trying to figure out how to add a picture. Is there a limit on the size of pict, trying to add picts w/ 2.5 megs...to large?

Yeah, I ran into that using my Canon 8MP which is 1-2 MB per pic on the lowest setting! This site limits you to 500 KB per post, so either stand far back & give yourself room to crop to <500 KB, or do what I do & use your cell phone camera for the lesser pix to post here, & the better camera to do your own pix & to upload to photobucket/etc.

Is it originally a 73 2.0 or 1.7 motor (when it had one)??

Download irfanview. It's free and you can use it to resize your picture.

Pleasanton and the entire Bay Area isn't that far either... in fact, I'm leaving for Stockton in an hour or so for work...

Unless you are trying to keep the car as stock (like for concourse usage) I would not rebuild a 1.7. I would, however, take many of the 1.7 parts and build a 1911 motor by bumping the pistons and cylinders to 96mm. As long as you don't bump up the CR, you will be able to keep using D-Jet, have a stock looking motor - but jump from ~80 HP to about ~110 HP.

You would still need to refresh the same things that you would refresh if you were rebuilding stock - bearings, heads, cam, etc. You would also need to get the 1.7 heads cut to accept 96mm cylinders. Obviously you would need to buy new pistons and cylinders.

Since the 1911 does not change stroke, you can use the stock crank and rods you already have. Though if the crank needs to be cut down due to wear, it might be cheaper to source a new one due to $$$ bearing costs. But that would be the case if you went stock or not.

Its just another option, if you are interested in rebuilding a motor.

My issue with using used engines is that you have no idea if its going to even work until you put it in the car and try it. And if it works, you have no idea how long its going to work. Build your own, and you know exactly whats in it and what has been done.

Zach

Then again, it can easily cost thousands to build an engine "right". Head work in particular can be very spendy. You can get a used engine for a few hundred if you work at it.

The problem with that is that you very rarely know if the engine is in good shape or not. You can do things to improve your odds (e.g., compression test and/or leak-down, check the fuel injection parts or carbs as best you can, maybe a test run in whatever car it's coming out of, etc.) but none of that guarantees that the thing will actually start once it's in your car.

--DD

Hope this works, downloaded IrfanView and did a save as to less than 500kb.

Dave

Yea, it worked. Here's the interior....needs some work. But it's all there.

Dave

I've got a 1.7L out of a '73 with carbs thats needs a new oil pump seal and a tuning if you want it. Less than 4K miles on a complete rebuild.

wigh9@tamu.edu

Very cool Dave. Now that you have it home have you been able to check out all the obvious areas for rust? It appears to be less of a project than the '70. You saved a small fortune by picking up a more complete car.

Working on tearing the interior out, found alot of surface rust and a black tarry substance...? When I chip out the tar, rust under.

Is there a way to get this stuff out easier than chipping it out? ...and when I do get it out - wire wheel the hell out of it and put POR 15 on or rust bullet...opinions?

Dave

Working on tearing the interior out, found alot of surface rust and a black tarry substance...? When I chip out the tar, rust under.

Is there a way to get this stuff out easier than chipping it out? ...and when I do get it out - wire wheel the hell out of it the floor and put POR 15 on or rust bullet...opinions?

Dave

Sorry Dave, no easy way. But I'm glad to hear you're getting started on it.
Have fun

Here is my latest find, found this engine for $100. Any idea with this case number what it is? Also, lot of end play on the crank, about 1/4" without a flywheel on.

The heads looked actually pretty good, except for the pulled out stud.

Dave

Here is another case I have for a 1.8, which one should I use?

Engine looks kinda turdy. Why do you want a 1.7? Why not 2.0?

Engine Numbers Link

It is a 70-72 1.7L

Andy,

I saw this motor yesterday and he just wants a driver on a lower budget!

He only paid $100 for the motor! The Valves are brand new and the heads have had recent work done. It was obvious that the reason the person parked it was the pulled rocker stud! It looks like he could fix the stud and get it running but the movement in the crank doesn't look good to me!

What he wants to know is, if 1/4" of forward and back movement in the crank without the flywheel on is enough to forget about fixing this or not. How involved is it to fix the crank?

I don't know enough about how much movement is ok and what is not!

I did a search and found this about endplay! Measuring the End Play of the crank

Heat gun from Harbor Freight and a stiff scraper will get the tar out. It's not hard at all but a boring messy job. Good looking project. Have fun.

I agree completely with the recommendations for McMark and Raby Aircooled Technology.

If I was looking for a driver, I would build a 2056 with carbs. Nice little power boost over the stock engines of any size. DJet is good with the 2056 as well but cam choice is critical. The next important thing to remember is that the heads are critical. You can spend as little as you want on the rebuild and if you don't pay a lot of attention to the heads you could end up doing it twice which is now a lot of money. On several occasions I have seen heads that have been rebuilt which have cracks in them or loose seats. I am not saying that Len Hoffman is the only place to go and I doubt Len would tell you that either, but Len has a careful process that gives you the best chance of your heads not giving you problems. Now, the problem; Len will not work with old original castings any more. Your rebuilder should bake the bare heads in an oven at 400 degrees F. This is the temperature at which bad things happen in a running Type IV engine. My operating cylinder head temperature in the engine I am using right now is 250 degrees F. and rises to 300 degrees F. when I spank it like a bad Catholic girl or go to a 5th gear cruise on a hot day. At 400 degrees, Len sees valve seats actually just fall out of the casting. Now, imagine this happening in your new engine; disaster! It will mess up the head which will need rewelding and machining to restore its shape before it can be rebuilt again. It will take out the cylinder and if you're lucky just the top of the piston. If it goes through the top of the piston, it probably will destroy everything inside the case and ventilate the case as well.

I am not saying you cannot do a cheap on the fly rebuild. You probably can but know where you are going from the start. Minimum, you need a cam with valve train and valve job, as well as a gasket kit and bearings. I would guess even do it yourself you are looking at $1000.

Don't be afraid to spend some money. There is nothing more expensive than a car you will not drive because it doesn't run right or reliably. Buy a $100 bike and you will hang it from the rafters, buy a $2000 bike and you will put a 1000 miles a year on it.

Talk to McMark, he is close and very trustworthy.

The way you get the proper end pay is you need a flywheel and 3 shims. You bolt on the flywheel and measure the end play. Then you find the 3 of the right size shims to get your proper end play which is between 4-6 thousand.

OK that should help him!!

So he doesn't need to crack the case for that and if he fixes the rocker stud he should be able to run the motor!

Rob and Craig,
Thanks for the advice, figured it out that I will spend some money, I want to put it together as economically as possible. Plan on breaking the case apart, new bearings, seals, new cam for a dual carb setup. New 96mm pistons and sleeves...and head work.


Any suggestions on size of carbs....linkage?

Dave

And the engine I am working with is a 1.7, with the larger pistons should increase to a 1.9.

Dave

Well, thinking of changing directions of dual carbs to Megasquirt FI. Need to do some more research.

Thought everyone would get a kick out of the following:

Question - Finally got my 73 back in my garage...now for the question...How do you get a 914 in your garage when you have a 30 degree driveway and no motor in the car?

I guess I'd better qualify that with that's the driveway is up hill.

Push it with another car.
Lot of friends pushing.
Some sort of winch.

Zach,
Internet problems...sorry.

Right last guess. I used an electric wench. Tied off the wench with chains to 4x4 thru the 2 door openings of my garage.

Pointed the 914 in the right direction, up the driveway. Pulled the cable out to find that I was about 6 feet short. Conned my wife into pushing up the hill with a rolling start and throwing something under the rear tire to stop it rolling back in the street...worked on the 6th try. Then was close enough to hook onto the front hook under the car.

Started pulling the wench up and verrrryyyy worried when the chains became very tight, hoping that my door jambs will hold. Slowly pulled it up with my door jambs intact.....Sorry no picts, too worried at the time.

Dave

Lennie,
I don't think 4 of us could have pushed it up the hill....but if you and Jeff are available some time Saturday I want to get your opinion on parts that I need....and beer will be available.

Dave

I am not sure about this weekend but if I am available I will come out!

I am trying to get the boat running!

Looks like a fun project. Hope the 1.7 you found works out for you.

Keep us posted with lots of pics!